Author Topic: Death by drowning 1874. Any advice appreciated  (Read 20303 times)

Offline bearkat

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Re: Death by drowning 1874. Any advice appreciated
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 15 May 11 15:51 BST (UK) »
http://www.mardenchurch.org.uk/ck/?page_ref=338&PHPSESSID=ade50d2c683d51412352f5f732ccca62


MEMORIALS REMOVED

Note:

These memorials have been removed: details, given here in good faith, are based on informal papers which should be regarded as unreliable.  “F” indications are surmised.  No photographs exist but transcriptions or partial transcriptions are available where marked respectively “T” or “P”.


Spicer Boys 1874 F “of Marden” husband of Frances

Spicer Frances 1895 wife of Boys, they left 3 sons and 4 daughters: Frances-Hester, Boys, Thomas-John, William, Maryann, Elizabeth and Julia




Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD, DAGWELL, PARKER, WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING, BULL
Kent - BAYLY, BORER, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT, IDEN
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Herts - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
 All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Maggie1895

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Re: Death by drowning 1874. Any advice appreciated
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 15 May 11 15:57 BST (UK) »
Thank you!!!  all now clear, and my poor grandmother totally vindicated.   I definitely owe her an apology for not paying more attention.    I might have been around 11 or 12 or possibly not even that  that, and I think the family had some sort of "what is Grandma doing, isn't it embarrassing?" moment.    If only, as children, we realise that what we hear as elderly relatives and totally yawnmaking are the very things we will spent years searching for after they are gone...

I really cannot get over how good Rootschat is.    A Sunday afternooon, reading a note of my mother's, wondering..  one post on Rootschat and I have so much by way of answer, and direction for more.      Thank you both so much

Census information Crown Copywright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk / National Archives of Scotland

Offline Maggie1895

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Re: Death by drowning 1874. Any advice appreciated
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 15 May 11 16:16 BST (UK) »
bearkat, thank you again.  I've just looked at the link you sent for the missing memorials and realised that I have never searched St Michael's records.   Because I had looked at the Marden History Society page and searched Burials etc through that I thought that covered it - what a great resource I had overlooked by assuming that was it.
There are lot of my family listed apart from the Spicers, including even the number of their plots so when I do make it to Kent I will be well prepared.  The best bit is that although I have the tree going back a few generations, there is a wealth of evidence in here to support / confirm the entries that are work in progress.
Census information Crown Copywright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk / National Archives of Scotland

Offline bearkat

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Re: Death by drowning 1874. Any advice appreciated
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 15 May 11 16:20 BST (UK) »
That's brilliant.  ;D

Do have a look at the online records for neighbouring Staplehurst - there are quite a few SPICERS there too.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~staplehurst/Reg_Menu.htm
Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD, DAGWELL, PARKER, WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING, BULL
Kent - BAYLY, BORER, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT, IDEN
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Herts - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
 All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Maggie1895

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Re: Death by drowning 1874. Any advice appreciated
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 15 May 11 16:41 BST (UK) »
I will.  I know that Boys was born there, though his mother's family are from Marden, and have details of Boys parents but not so far any previous generations of Spicers. 
I really would like to find out where his christian name originated.
His maternal line is different - his grandfather and great grandfather were both Boys Simmons, b 1723 and 1747 respectively, and I can follow that line back from Kent to Southwark and Shoreditch and a marriage between a William Simmons and a lady called Elizabeth.    I'd love to think she may have been Elizabeth Boys but with a birth around 1700 it's not going to be something that'll be easy to confirm (or not)!
Census information Crown Copywright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk / National Archives of Scotland

Offline bearkat

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Re: Death by drowning 1874. Any advice appreciated
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 15 May 11 16:59 BST (UK) »
They're common names but there is a marriage for a William SIMMONDS to Elizabeth MASON both OTP 6th October 1717.

I can see only one child baptised to this couple in Staplehurst - William 30th January 1718/9.

Perhaps they moved away to London  ???
Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD, DAGWELL, PARKER, WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING, BULL
Kent - BAYLY, BORER, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT, IDEN
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Herts - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
 All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Maggie1895

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Re: Death by drowning 1874. Any advice appreciated
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 15 May 11 18:59 BST (UK) »
Lovely idea but I don't think that's them.

Boys' mother was Hester Mary Simmons (her burial is in the St Michael list). Her baptism was on 17 December 1784 at Chatham in Kent
Her father was Boys Simmons, baptised in Marden on Christmas Day 1747 (her mother was Martha Barton)
Boys Simmon's father was also Boys Simmons, baptised 28 March 1734 (typo, that should read 1723) in Southwark - which is where we move back from Kent.  His mother was Hester, surname unknown
The earlier Boys Simmon's father was William Simmons, but from there we are getting into conjecture.   He stands out like a sore thumb (in my family anyway!) as on Boys' baptism records he is a 'gentleman' - and in my tree we don't get many of them to the pound!   
There is a baptism that could be William's in Shoreditch on 14 August 1692, and if it is 'my' William Simmons then  his parents were William Simmons and Elizabeth. 
If that is him, then you have 2 generations of Williams suddenly followed by 2 generations of Boys, which is what leads me to wonder if Elizabeth was Elizabeth Boys?   So far I've not managed to get any further in this, but brick walls in 1692 are always easier to live with thnat brick walls in the 1820s which is where some of my other lines stop.
The one thing I do know for sure is that the Simmons line, where the Boys name originates, moves out of Kent and goes back to London in the earlier half of the 1700s.

p.s.
actually on second thoughts that doesn't preclude the 1717 Staplehurst marriage - the fact they have one son baptised in 1718 in Kent doesn't stop them having a second baptised 6 years later in Southwark - oh lord don't these things get complicated!  Thanks for the lead, I will follow it up
Census information Crown Copywright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk / National Archives of Scotland

Offline bearkat

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Re: Death by drowning 1874. Any advice appreciated
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 15 May 11 19:30 BST (UK) »
There's lots on the SIMMON(D)S family on the Staplehurst site

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~staplehurst/Simmons_family.htm#William 1680

Do you have an idea of William's age?

William Simmonds  c1680
It is uncertain who the parents of William are. See William above. Which of these two Williams is the son of Thomas and Jane Simmons is unknown. Their son was born on 06 April 1680 and baptised in Staplehurst on 23 October 1681.
William Simmonds of Staplehurst married Elizabeth Mason on 06 Oct 1717 in Staplehurst. They were both said to be of Staplehurst. The couple had one child baptised in Staplehurst.
William son of William and Elizabeth was born 23 November 1718 and baptised on 30 January 1718/18.

There is no further record in Staplehurst for this family; presumably they left the parish.
l

This William was about 37 when he married Elizabeth.

Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD, DAGWELL, PARKER, WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING, BULL
Kent - BAYLY, BORER, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT, IDEN
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Herts - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
 All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline bearkat

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Re: Death by drowning 1874. Any advice appreciated
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 15 May 11 20:02 BST (UK) »

Boys' mother was Hester Mary Simmons (her burial is in the St Michael list). Her baptism was on 17 December 1784 at Chatham in Kent

Do you have the baptism entry?

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0d89/
Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD, DAGWELL, PARKER, WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING, BULL
Kent - BAYLY, BORER, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT, IDEN
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Herts - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
 All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk