James Roberts from Chirk

[almuir]

My Great Grandfather James Roberts has been a bit of a mystery to me. The family story was that he was Welsh, but I didn't know from where. I was beginning to question whether this was just a story until I got a tip from a family member that he was from Chirk and he moved to Scotland after falling out with his parents. I wonder if anyone can help shed some light on this.

The details I know are:-
Died April 1936 in Motherwell, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
Married Agnes Gilfillan (ms McGilvray) June 1914 in Lanark.
Occupation Railway Brakeman / Railway Clerk.
Stated age at marriage - 39.
Stated age at death - 60.
Parents' names from both marriage and death certificates:-
James Roberts (coal merchant) (deceased).
Mary Ann Crookson (deceased).
He is described as a widower on his marriage certificate (his bride was also a widow - I know a lot more about her!)

From this info it would suggest he was born around 1875.

If anyone can help find out some more about him I would be most grateful.

Thanks

[CaroleW]

Hi and welcome to Rootschat

He should be on the 1881 census (England and Wales) which is free to search at

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp

However - there is no marriage in England/Wales on freebmd between a Mary Crookson/James Roberts

www.freebmd.org.uk

[CaroleW]

I have checked the Scottish 1881 census and there is no entry that matches his profile.  I have also checked Scotlands People for a Crookson/Roberts marriage but no joy there either

There is no entry on the 1881 that would match either

[Jo Harding]

Hello almuir,

There is only one couple with the names of James and Mary Roberts living in Chirk in the 1871 Wales census. They are at reference: RG10/2784 Folio 49 Page 13.

Their youngest daughter is named Mary Ann and given the names of Mary Ann Crookson, said to be James's wife, this could be of interest.

I cannot find them in the 1881. See below for a household that looks to be the same but Mary Roberts is a widow.

BMD has a birth registration for James Roberts in Oswestry in the June quarter 1876, Volume 6a Page 768.

There is an entry in the 1881 census at reference RG12/4617 Folio 70 Page 26. It is for a household in Chirk the head is shown as Mary Price but her children are named Roberts. These include a James Roberts aged 18, born Chirk Green.

The one that looks more interesting is at reference: RG11/5518 Folio 78 Page 17. This appears to be for the same family as on the 1871 referred to above. This has Mary Roberts aged 39, widow, annuitant, born St Martin's, Shropshire. The eldest son is John, aged 16 and Mary A Roberts, daughter, is aged 10, born Chirk. This one has James, son, aged 8, born Chirk.

There is a death of a James Roberts in Wrexham Registration District in 1880, it shows he was aged 36. This would fit with the James in the 1871 census.

It could be that some of the family story is not quite right but there is some factual basis in the place of birth.

I think that some Rootschatters have access to the Chirk parish registers. Any hance of some look ups for these?

Jo.

[CaroleW]

There is an entry in the 1881 census at reference RG12/4617 Folio 70 Page 26. It is for a household in Chirk the head is shown as Mary Price but her children are named Roberts. These include a James Roberts aged 18, born Chirk Green.

It is the 1891 census - not 1881 - and I discounted it last night as the person who reported the transcription error appears to be related and says as follows:

The Roberts children are dittoed off their eldest brother John and retain their surname despite their mother Mary Roberts (nee Dodd) remarrying Robert Price after the death of her husband in the Bersham Pit disaster of 1880

[wrjones]

There is a Tree on Ancestry which states the James Roberts mentioned as living in Bersham died in 1904.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[almuir]

Thanks for the input folks!
Now I have to learn how to navigate English and Welsh records. Scottish records are so much more straightforward!!!