Author Topic: Courtney in Cork - Can you Help?  (Read 1475 times)

Offline PollyB

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Courtney in Cork - Can you Help?
« on: Thursday 26 May 11 17:27 BST (UK) »
Needle in a Haystack I'm afraid so this is a bit of a challenge if anyone can help. I would greatly welcome any information anyone can find.  I am trying to find out about my Grandmother and her family and know next to nothing about her before she came to England.  The information I have is:

- Maiden Name:  Mary Ann / Annie Courtney

- Estimated year of birth from Death Certificate 1887 (her birthday was in February)

- A little Irish lady with a strong accent, she told my father she came from Cork but I don't know whereabouts.

- Her father's name was John Courtney a Blacksmith (from marriage cert to my Grandfather)

- She came to England sometime approx in 1920's (earliest trace in England is in 1927).

- She must have had a first marriage in Ireland to a Mr Martin, as on the marriage certificate to my Grandfather she was "Annie Martin, Widow".  She apparently met my Grandfather on the boat on the way over from Ireland.

-  When she came to England she had a daughter, Florence Martin (who was also a witness on her marriage cert to my Grandfather).  Know nothing about Florence except my dad remembering visiting her when he was little. 

-  Married to my Grandfather in 1927 in Charlton, London (I have the marriage cert for this).

-  Death Certificate in Greenwich, London: September 1955, Mary Ann Sheridan - 68 years (I have this Death Certificate).

- Possibly had a sister called "Cissy"?

- I have found an Annie Courtney in the 1901 census of Bluepool Upper (Kanturk, Cork) aged 13 (right age) with a father John Courtney, general labourer, but have no way of knowing if this is her as I have so little information to corroborate so am scratching my head.

That's all I know I'm afraid, not a lot to go on I know, but if anyone is able to come up with anything I'd be extremely grateful.

PollyB

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Offline shanew147

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Re: Courtney in Cork - Can you Help?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 26 May 11 18:09 BST (UK) »
there are not that many Courtney births listed on the BMD Index around the right time, and only a few of them seem to be in Co. Cork. You could try ordering certs for possible matches, and check father's name and occupation - but Cork is a large county and there are quite a few registration district included - i.e. :
   Bandon, Bantry, Castletown, Clonakilty, Cork (city)
   Dunmanway, Fermoy, Kanturk *, Killmallock *, Kinsale, Lismore
   Macroom, Mallow, Middleton, Millstreet, Mitchelstown, Skibbereen
   Skull, Youghal *   

(the ones with an * also cover parts of other counties)

see : Introduction to Irish Records

It might be worth a further check for Courtney blacksmiths on the 1901 census also..

any estimate for Florence Martin's year of birth ?


Shane
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Offline shanew147

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Re: Courtney in Cork - Can you Help?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 26 May 11 18:17 BST (UK) »
.....
-  When she came to England she had a daughter, Florence Martin (who was also a witness on her marriage cert to my Grandfather).
...
-  Married to my Grandfather in 1927 in Charlton, London
....

If Florence was a witness at the wedding of her mother I am assuming that she would have been over 18 at the time - so born before 1909 ?

If so, maybe she appears, with her mother, on the Irish or English 1911 census ...


Shane
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Offline PollyB

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Re: Courtney in Cork - Can you Help?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 26 May 11 19:34 BST (UK) »
Thank you for taking the time to reply Shane.  I will have a look at the link you put in your reply and then see what I can find out from the BMD indexes.  I'm a bit nervous about ordering certificates from Ireland, only ever done it once before and still quite unsure what I'm doing!  Also great idea about checking out the census for Blacksmiths, will do that too.

I have no information about Florence at all, only that I'm told she is supposed to have come over from Ireland with her mother.  She was my dad's much older half sister who disappeared off the scene before he was old enough to know her well.

I have had a look in the English 1911 census for an Annie/Mary Ann Martin and there is only one Mary Ann Martin with a daughter Florence, living in Greenwich, London, but she is too old and has quite a few other sons, so this can't be my woman.  Another Annie Martin in Greenwich is the right age, a domestic servant, but born in Yorkshire and has no daughter Florence.

In the Irish census I've found three Mary/Annie Martins in Cork, aged between 26 and 29, all married but no Florence, and one has three sons, so I don't think that could be her.  I suppose the other two may be possibles, one is in Foherlagh and the other Coolmain - but these areas mean nothing to me unfortuantely, don't know if they would be near Bluepool, Kanturk?  And I've found a Mary Courtney, age 24, boarder, in Gortnatubbrid.  As I have so little to go on it all seems a little overwhelming I must say.


Just as an aside, I see from the bottom of your post you are interested in Sheridans in Dublin, my grandfather was a Sheridan from Dublin, another needle in a haystack I've done better with than I thought I'd ever do with the help of Rootschatters.

Many thanks again for your suggestions and taking the time.

PollyB

Offline josefregan

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Re: Courtney in Cork - Can you Help?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 01 June 13 22:28 BST (UK) »
My great grandfather is John Courtney from Cork and he had a daugher Annie Elizabeth who was born in 1897 - not sure if its the same one. Also - I know John Courtney owen a public house he may or may not have been a blacksmith. I dont know. You can check out the census record from 1911 here..
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Skibbereen_Urban/North_Street/441537/

Offline cgreen

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Re: Courtney in Cork - Can you Help?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 29 June 17 18:14 BST (UK) »
josefregan -
I am not able to help the person seeking Mary Ann/Annie Courtney, unfortunately, but I am interested about  your reply to her that John Courtney at Skibbereen was your great-grandfather.   If you see this note could you reply to me please? I am related to the Courtneys of Skibbereen/Castlehaven area and we have a family letter from John Courtney of Skibbereen to my great-grandfather Michael Courtney in the U.S.  I think that may be your g-grandfather?    Where do you live and do you have some  family history of the Skibbereen Courtneys? I would be very glad to compare what we have together with you.   Also have any of you done the DNA test ?   My mother has had hers and is on gedmatch.   All best, Catherine Green

Online Sinann

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Re: Courtney in Cork - Can you Help?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 29 June 17 19:04 BST (UK) »
Do you know Michael's father's name.
I had a look at John
1911 as posted above
1901 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Skibbereen_Urban/North_Street/1155492/
Birth of daughter Anne Elizabeth, Mother Susan McCarthy/Nunan
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1897/02123/1807194.pdf
Marriage of John to Susan Nunan gives his father as Timothy (farmer)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10485/5818654.pdf

Online scatty

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Re: Courtney in Cork - Can you Help? Updated
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 29 June 17 19:40 BST (UK) »
Hello, PollyB
Florence birth 28th March 1910 Dundalk
Annie marriage to Joseph Martin 3rd February 1910 again Dundalk
both age 20,her father a blacksmith. Joseph occupation,hairdresser.


1911 Irish census  family are living Williamson Place, Dundalk
Joseph age 21 a hairdresser
Annie age 20
Florrie age 1
and a boarder Michael Courtney age 17
All born Dundalk

His death 1913

I think Cork is a red herring but take a look and see what you think


Regards Scatty
Fitzgerald/Mullane/Riordan/Heaphy,  Doneraile,Co Cork
McCormack/ Brophy/Egan/Gavin, Tullamore,Co Offlay
Penfold / Seaman / Bannister / Donovan/Hines/Cowell/ Hance and Dunningham

Essex / Middlesex / Kent / Suffolk and wherever next
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cgreen

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Re: Courtney in Cork - Can you Help?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 29 June 17 19:45 BST (UK) »
I don't want to "hijack" PollyB's  thread here about her "Annie Courtney Martin Sheridan"  born Cork,  who died in  London 1955.  I tried on the Kanturk 1901 Bluepool Upper, Kanturk Cork she mentioned.     It really does look to me that the child Annie could be hers as a child at home  - age matches and father's name John and she knew "born Cork."    So I hope someone reading this thread is able to help her.   On the death certificate she has,  hers born approx 1887 and the 1901 she quotes is
Residents of a house 14 in Bluepool Upper (Kanturk, Cork) 1901 -
Show all information
Surname   Forename   Age   Sex   Relation to head   Religion
Courtney   John   56   Male   Head of Family   Roman Catholic
Courtney   Edward   17   Male   Son   Roman Catholic
Courtney   Patrick   15   Male   Son   Roman Catholic
Courtney   Annie   13   Female   Daughter   Roman Catholic
Courtney   Ellie   10   Female   Daughter   Roman Catholic

But where is this family in 1911 census ??   I could not find them.  And PollyB says that her Annie didnt emigrate to England until approx 1920s.

Another person posted here also,  that there was an Annie Courtney born in 1897 (ten years difference in age to the one PollyB is seeking) but with the information this Annie Courtney's dad was  another John Courtney who lived at Skibbereen.  My note with the only way I have to contact this person by replying on this thread to him being surprised and interested about the  descendant of John Courtney of Skibbereen if he will write back to me.   
But yes to Sinann's post following mine,  and  and thank you!   the father of John at Skibbereen was Timothy Courtney -of  Bluid, Castlehaven Cork.    I actually have an error in my first note.  My John Courtney was  born Cork c. 1819  "near Skibbereen" per family.  His son Michael Courtney is the one who wrote to John Courtney at Skibbereen.  Michael was only about 5 years old when his Cork born dad died, and the orphans did not know any more about their Irish Courtneys.   We did match DNA with Courtneys from Bluid which was wonderful since the parish records of Castlehaven area do not exist early enough to include a 1819 baptism. DNA was my first way to substantiate the location, other than family notes, since the parish records do not exist.  I do still hope to talk to descendants of the Courtney family just in case they know any further about mine and I would in turn be interested to hear about theirs.   We have some contact with the family in Ireland still - DNA cousins - but not able yet to exactly establish where ours fit in.  Very glad to hear anything at all about mine of course but again sorry popping up in PollyB's research on ones that may be from Kanturk!  I really sympathize with what she calls "needle in a haystack" search and hope she can find them.   Catherine