John Ives c1825. Missenden.

[bucksboy]

Hi folks.

Need a little help and guidance here.

John Ives c1825 Missenden - married Fanny(Frances) King in 1847. Princes Risborough.

John Ives was buried in Princes Risborough,  21 May 1876 aged 50 of Longwick.

Father is James Ives on marriage cert.

John Ives gives his p.o.b as Longwick & Monks Risborough also.

Cannot find John Ives with father James on 1841 census.   BUT....there is a 'stray' John Ives in 1841 Bledlow census

Found a James Ives(Jass) c1791 Missenden(Widower) Ag.Lab, in Longwick in 1851, a few doors away from John & Fanny Ives.  James Ives(Jass) is living/visiting John Bennion c1790 Wendover, who is a Publican.

I found John Bennion in Stoke Mandeville in 1841, as a publican/farmer.

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Found a marriage in Chesham Bois for James Ives & Mary Channer in 1819, and Children born Chesham Bois are Mary 1819, Eli 1821 & Joseph 1823.

I have found a baptism for a John Ives - 5 Mar 1826 @ Stoke Mandeville, to James Jnr & Mary Ives.

Also found a potential burial for Mary Ives(Channer ?).  6 Aug 1829 @ Stoke Mandeville.

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Questions.

1). Where is James Ives in 1841. (With or without John and wife Mary)
2). Did James Ives remarry.
3). Are there any more children to James & Mary Ives(Channer), in Chesham Bois.
4). Where did James Ives die. (Not buried in Princes Risborough).

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I have looked everywhere for 6 years to no avail, and hopeing some fresh eyes and ideas might help.


Many thanks.


Steve.

[cookson]

Hi, been having a look for your Ives family, bit of a stinker because i have been looking in ancestry and found a JAMES IVES, born Great Missenden, Buck, 1791, he has 2 spouses, Mary Channer and a Sarah? i have found James and Mary and family in 1841 in NORTHAMPTONSHIRE, with  children, JOHN, 1826, CHARLOTTE, 1826, ELIZA , 1828, Thomas, 1829, and Jane 1833, born in Northamptonshire, also, i found another child, DAVID IVES, born, abt, 1818/20, in WIMBLEDON.
Don't know if this is the right family, but the names match, IE; son John Ives, and wife, Mary Channer.
Can go back further with them if you want, but just have a look at this for now and let me know what you think, oh found a death for James Ives, march, 1878, northamptonshire.
Regards,
           Cookie.

[bucksboy]

Hi Cookie, and thank you very much for your interest.

The Northamptonshire  IVES family all appear to involved in the shoe industry(obviously).  John Ives c1826 is still in Northampton and married, so I don't think these are my family.

As for James c1791 and the two wives (Mary Channer & Sarah ?), I have not found a parentage or p.o.b for Mary Channer, if that is the right surname for her.  And Sarah is still a mystery totally.

I think there are two James IVES of a similar age, and parentage.  And that may be where the problem lies.

As for the 1826 baptism for John Ives in Stoke Mandeville,  I have had no luck in census with that name and p.o.b at all.

I have had IVES family members being born in other villages, but not baptised in same.  But I'm not saying that the Stoke Mandeville John IVES is mine, just that I haven't found one in Missenden for him.

Just to stray off point for a moment, I have relatives(STEVENS) being born in Monks Risborough and baptised in Great Kimble, and the children in later census seem to split between Monks Risborough and Kimble as p.o.b.  But these were quite easily sorted out.

There are Trees that seem to be at the same point as myself, so I shouldn't be surprised at my dilemma.

All I can say for certain, is that John IVES gave James IVES as fathers name on his 1847 marriage cert, and in the parish registers.

And to top it all, I have just found a Joseph IVES c1826. Stoke, Buckinghamshire marrying an Ann HARMAN(c.1827. Bledlow) in 1850. Princes Risborough, giving fathers name as James IVES Ag.Lab in Princes Risborough parish regs.  Found them in 1851, and then nothing after that.

I still have gut feeling the answer lies in the area of Princes Risborough to Wendover and Chesham, and then over to Great & Little Missenden and finally Hughenden.  A big area, I know.   Almost a Bermuda triangle.

I am so grateful that you have shown interest, and hopefully more eyes can see further than my own,


Warmest regards.


Steve.

[bucksboy]

Ok folks, I've been at this for hours now, and I think there are some more clues.

Mary Ives b.1819-Chesham, appears to be in service in 1851 to Edward Arnold in High Wycombe. Unmarried.  In 1861 in service again to Henry Wheeler.

Joseph Ives b1823 as mentioned before in previous post.

Eli Ives b1821 (age varies), ends up in Kensington in London and marries Mary Ann Winsbury in 1860. Kensington. (p.o.b is only given as Bucks/Buckinghamshire).

Eli seems to have used fathers name of James in 1861.  This census record has huge errors on it, and his name is transrcibed and written as James Ives Staterey.

In 1871 he has 3 children, together with (Winsbury)step children.  James(1860), Elizabeth(1866) & William(1868) all born Notting Hill.

James Ives(1860) appears as James Winsbury in the 1861 census.  He in turn marries Mary Elizabeth , and lives in later census.

There is a tree on Ancestry with father of Eli Ives as JAMES IVES.

If anyone has a spare bit of time, could you please try and confirm what I have found.   At the minute, my poor old brain cell is fried a tad.


Thanks for looking folks.


Steve.

[supermoussi]

I still have gut feeling the answer lies in the area of Princes Risborough to Wendover and Chesham, and then over to Great & Little Missenden and finally Hughenden.  A big area, I know.   Almost a Bermuda triangle.

I have two Ives lines; one in Hughenden which stops at John Ives m.1722 d.1764 and the other in Princes Risborough which stops at John Ives, Yeoman d.1724. I have always suspected that they are the same family, and that Missenden is where they came from before Hughenden and PR. Judging by the Bucks wills index it looks like they may have come from Ickford before that.

My Hughenden line has a James Ives bapt.1796 who I guess might be a candidate for yours??? I don't know what became of him, but if it is any help his parents were Joseph Ives & Martha Plumridge, and brothers William, Stephen and Daniel.

[bucksboy]

Hi Supermoussi.

There is another train of thought, that the IVES line traces back to John Ives c1656 Quainton. (Buried 1716 @ Great Milton, Oxon.)  Parents John  & Margaret Ives (nee.? ? ? ).

Great Milton is quite close to Ickbury.  Only 3-4 miles away.

John Ives(1656.Quainton) marries Jane ? ? ? somewhere, and has a child John Ives c1692. Grendon Underwood.  John(c1692) then marries Elizabeth Wright in 1722. Hughenden.

John & Elizabeth then have a son Joseph c.1725. Hughenden.

No marriage for Joseph Ives(1725. Hughenden) but he apparently has a child Joseph. c1761. Gt.Missenden.

Joseph Ives(1761. Gt.Missenden) the marries Hannah Warrell in 1782. Wendover.

Joseph & Hannah have a son James c1788 in Great Missenden.

And here we are with James c1788, marrying Mary Channer in Chesham Bois in 1819.
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Lots of weak links in this line of thought.


Oh how I wish I lived in England now.  I would certainly be pounding the parish regs etc. at Bucks studies. 


Steve.

[Orpheus]

I have found a baptism for a John Ives - 5 Mar 1826 @ Stoke Mandeville, to James Jnr & Mary Ives.

I think the above is probably your man. 

Up to 1850 a large detached part of the parish of Stoke Mandeville was situated at Prestwood.  Until the formation of the parish of Prestwood - which included parts of the parishes of Great Missenden and Hughenden as well as the detached part of Stoke Mandeville - those children born in the Stoke Mandeville part would have been taken to the mother church at Stoke Mandeville for baptism.  As this was six miles distant its hardly surprising that some children never were baptised.

[bucksboy]

Thanks for that Orpheus.

I'm almost sure as well, but it's just that little tiny nagging doubt that spoils it.

If I take that baptism as gospel, then I am looking for a James Snr.  father to James Jnr. as mentioned in the baptism record.

Maybe the James Ives c1791(transcribed Jass), I found as widowed in the 1851 census in Longwick, Princes risborough, is a red herring........but the coincidence of him living with John Bennion (1791. Wendover), and then John Bennion living in Stoke Mandeville in 1841 I can't ignore.

And also with James Ives living a few doors away from 'my' John Ives in 1851, I can't ignore that either.

I'll keep at it, I'm sure that doubt will dissappear.


Steve.

[Orpheus]

Thanks for that Orpheus.

If I take that baptism as gospel, then I am looking for a James Snr. father to James Jnr. as mentioned in the baptism record.

How about this scenario:

James IVES of Great Missenden married Mary WOOSTER at Wendover 20 Jan 1785.  They have the following children:

6 Oct 1785  Elizabeth bapt at Gt Missenden
27 Apr 1787  Ann bapt at Gt Missenden
21 Jun 1789  Sarah bapt at The Lee
10 Apr 1791  James bapt at The Lee
7 Jul 1793  John bapt at The Lee
7 Jun 1795  Thos bapt at The Lee
9 Jun 1799  William bapt at Gt Missenden
11 May 1800  Joseph bapt at Gt Missenden
2 Aug 1801  Job bapt at Gt Missenden