Author Topic: Sarah Kelly - Domestic Servant?  (Read 2368 times)

Offline daisynook

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Sarah Kelly - Domestic Servant?
« on: Sunday 12 June 11 11:07 BST (UK) »
Hi all - The address on the marriage cert is 50 Upper Baxter Street, Hulme for both parties which I find strange!  June 6th 1873 Sarah Kelly married William Mather.  Father's name Henry Mather, Engineer and Michael Kelly, Bricklayer.  Witnesses William and Dinah Foy.

I am having another tack at this topic.  I wondered if anyone knows if there are any Domestic Servant records between 1863 - 1873.  I think maybe Sarah was 'living in' with someone or maybe even with the Mather family as the address was the same on the marriage certificate.  Why then would she not be on the census?  And where are the rest of her family?
McMullen, Gleave, Kelly, Scholes, Mather, Phillips, Lock

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Offline mosiefish

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Re: Sarah Kelly - Domestic Servant?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 12 June 11 11:50 BST (UK) »
Hi Daisynook,

It is really confusing when you start a new thread when the other one is still current. 

For everyones information here is the link to the other thread :

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,537887.0.html

I was actually just looking into this via your other thread.  I can tell you there was no UPPER Baxter Street in Hulme on the 1871 census nor the 1881 as far as I can see. 

There is also no Sarah Kelly/Kelley etc living in the Manchester area of the correct age (plus or minus 5 years) and born Ireland.  It is also possible that she came from Ireland to work as a domestic servant after the 1871 census and her parents were still living in Ireland.   :'(

Mo
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Lancs: Harrison, Entwistle, Devine, Grundy, Ashworth, Freeman, Jackson, Rushton
Cornwall: Rich, Binney, Peak(e)
Devon: Martin, Walter(s)

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Offline Luzzu

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Re: Sarah Kelly - Domestic Servant?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 12 June 11 12:19 BST (UK) »
The Mather family were living at 50 Baxter Street in 1871 - no mention of it being "Upper" and also no sign of Sarah.

Class: RG10; Piece: 3996; Folio: 168; Page: 32

In my tree I have a couple of certificates where the address of the bride and groom is the same and in one case it seems like a totally random address compared with other records for the couple.  I think they were establishing "residency" to get married in a specific church.

http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/marriages.htm#COL7

However, I can't see how this would apply as William Mather would have already established residency (presuming Baxter Street and Upper Baxter Street were the same place).

Luzzu
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Manchester General Cemetery Transcription Project
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Armitage, Slaithwaite; Buck, Staffs & Hampshire; Buckley, Bolton & Manchester; Temple, London & Hampshire; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh, Manchester & Todmorden; Gralton/Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Slaithwaite; Shackleton, Burnley & Yorkshire; Dicks, Nottingham & Wiltshire; Sowter, Derbyshire

Offline daisynook

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Re: Sarah Kelly - Domestic Servant?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 12 June 11 12:35 BST (UK) »
Thank you Luzzu - Your attachment was interesting, showing the Marriage Cert can be misleading.  The address on the Cert does say 'Upper' Baxter Street.  It has been suggested to me that the address may have been a lodging house that they both could have been living at.
I started the new post with a view of finding any domestic servant records.
McMullen, Gleave, Kelly, Scholes, Mather, Phillips, Lock

Offline Luzzu

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Re: Sarah Kelly - Domestic Servant?
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 12 June 11 12:41 BST (UK) »
I thought I would try and find out about the witnesses to see if that helps but it doesn't.

They were married at Manchester Cathedral 12 Oct 1872 William Fo(e)y and Dinah Wardle.  Dinah was born in Hulme.  By 1881 they had moved to Radcliffe.
I can't find Dinah in 1871.

Luzzu
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Manchester General Cemetery Transcription Project
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Armitage, Slaithwaite; Buck, Staffs & Hampshire; Buckley, Bolton & Manchester; Temple, London & Hampshire; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh, Manchester & Todmorden; Gralton/Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Slaithwaite; Shackleton, Burnley & Yorkshire; Dicks, Nottingham & Wiltshire; Sowter, Derbyshire

Offline Luzzu

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Re: Sarah Kelly - Domestic Servant?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 12 June 11 12:43 BST (UK) »
I started the new post with a view of finding any domestic servant records.

I think, although I haven't looked into it in detail, that there were so many girls in domestic service you will be unlikely to find anything.  I think even fairly ordinary families employed "maids of all work".  Probably only the large estates would have kept records of their servants.

Luzzu
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Manchester General Cemetery Transcription Project
www.mgctp.moonfruit.com

Armitage, Slaithwaite; Buck, Staffs & Hampshire; Buckley, Bolton & Manchester; Temple, London & Hampshire; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh, Manchester & Todmorden; Gralton/Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Slaithwaite; Shackleton, Burnley & Yorkshire; Dicks, Nottingham & Wiltshire; Sowter, Derbyshire

Offline daisynook

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Re: Sarah Kelly - Domestic Servant?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 12 June 11 12:51 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that.  I had already looked into the Foy's.  I had actually tracked their relatives down on Ancestry and had conversation with them but they knew of no family connection to the Mathers.  They were probably just friends or came from Ireland together.

I have also found a 17 year old servant at Chorlton on Medlock 3990 100 23, I think this could possibly be her.
McMullen, Gleave, Kelly, Scholes, Mather, Phillips, Lock

Offline Luzzu

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Re: Sarah Kelly - Domestic Servant?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 12 June 11 12:53 BST (UK) »
I am not sure about a lodging house  ???.  It seems a huge coincidence that the Mathers were living at Baxter Street in 1871 and the address on the marriage certificate is Upper Baxter Street, which as Mo has already said doesn't exist on the 1871 or 1881 census.

And the number of the house is 50 in both cases.

I wonder if Baxter Street was a very long road and number 50 was at the "upper" end of Baxter Street so it would have been known amongst the locals (but not officially) as Upper and Lower Baxter Street  ???.

Luzzu
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Manchester General Cemetery Transcription Project
www.mgctp.moonfruit.com

Armitage, Slaithwaite; Buck, Staffs & Hampshire; Buckley, Bolton & Manchester; Temple, London & Hampshire; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh, Manchester & Todmorden; Gralton/Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Slaithwaite; Shackleton, Burnley & Yorkshire; Dicks, Nottingham & Wiltshire; Sowter, Derbyshire

Offline Luzzu

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Re: Sarah Kelly - Domestic Servant?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 12 June 11 13:08 BST (UK) »
There only seem to be two Sarah Kellys of the right age living in Manchester on the 1871 census, neither are born in Ireland.

On was born circa 1850 and is a boarder with the Clegg family at Edward Street, St Barnabas, Manchester (occupation jack tenter) and the other is a domestic servant with the Cummins family.  She was born circa 1854 and is Sarah J.

If the census returns were completed by the head of the household, would Mr Clegg and Mr Cummins necessarily know where their boarder/domestic was born and maybe just put Manchester out of convenience.

Luzzu
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Manchester General Cemetery Transcription Project
www.mgctp.moonfruit.com

Armitage, Slaithwaite; Buck, Staffs & Hampshire; Buckley, Bolton & Manchester; Temple, London & Hampshire; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh, Manchester & Todmorden; Gralton/Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Slaithwaite; Shackleton, Burnley & Yorkshire; Dicks, Nottingham & Wiltshire; Sowter, Derbyshire