Author Topic: Andrew E Murray:said nephew Of Sir Walter SCOTT  (Read 16857 times)

Offline astral14

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Re: Andrew E Murray:said nephew Of Sir Walter SCOTT
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 15 June 11 18:44 BST (UK) »

I am simply SPECULATING that
a)  Walter Scott 1771-1832 was seventh son of Walter Scott 1729-1799 & Ann Rutherford 1738-1819
b)  Walter Scott 1729-1799 was son of Robert Scott 1695-1775 and Barbara Haliburton 1700- ? AND THIS ROBERT SCOTT 1729 WAS THE SON OF WALTER 'BEARDIE' SCOTT 1680
c)  Ann Rutherford 1738- 1819 was daughter of Dr John Rutherford and ?
d)  Walter Scott 1771-1832 married 24th December 1797, Margaret Charlotte Charpentier.1773-1826.   Margaret’s mother was Charlotte Volere.  THE FATHER WAS JEAN CHARPENTIER. MARGARET CALLED HERSELF CARPENTER. THEY FLED THE REVOLUTION AND THE FATHER, THEN DEAD, HAD INVESTED SOME MONEY IN ENGLAND ON THE ESTATE OF LORD DOWNSHIRE. CHARLOTTE HAD A BROTHER CALLED CHARLES.
e)  Children of Ann Rutherford and Walter Scott would include  (obviously if Sir Walter was the seventh son, then there’s other sons and possibly other daughters not listed here) :
Jean
Barbara 1767-1772
Robert 1767 – 1783 (EAST INDIES)
John 1768-1816
Walter 1768-1832
Ann 1772-1802 (I HAVE HER DYING AS 1861 - IT COULD BE ANOTHER ANNE)
Thomas 1774-1823 - WAS A CAPTAIN AND WENT TO CANADA AND MARRIED AN ELIZXABETH MCCULLOUGH
Daniel 1775-1806 

Cheers,  JM,   


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Offline astral14

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Re: Andrew E Murray:said nephew Of Sir Walter SCOTT
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 15 June 11 19:07 BST (UK) »
I have added some details in capitals - it should read Elizabeth MacCulloch...


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Offline lnr

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Re: Andrew E Murray:said nephew Of Sir Walter SCOTT
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 15 June 11 21:36 BST (UK) »
wow i am absolutely flabergasted. I am doing this research for my brother in law whoms grandfather was Sir Joseph Ward premier of nz. As is live in nz I didnt think that I was able to get the access to the Milson papers to get the connection re the tree without being a member of the library and being in nsw. Walker Rainey(Rannie) Davidson is  one of the connections here. Thank you so much for all the work that has been put into finding this info  and is very much appreciated. I dont know where Id be without you all! regards lnr

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Re: Andrew E Murray:said nephew Of Sir Walter SCOTT
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 16 June 11 00:44 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

On the NSW State Library's contact details (linked earlier) there's an email address.  I was first introduced to their vast collections back in the late 1950's.  As far as I know it has always been open to the public, regardless of where you live.   I have a readers card, but I don't live in Sydney.  Readers cards are available for NSW residents. 

May I suggest you contact the Library via email, asking for help, I have always found the staff to be friendly, knowledgeable and co-operative.   The holdings are vast, and cover the foundations of all the colonies, including New Zealand (which of course was in the decades before 1841 administered from Sydney NSW). 

I feel that the index seems to show correspondence from Sir Walter Scott to Andrew Murray in 1813. And from this thread we know that Andrew was not yet in Australia (arriving Sept 1817).

 :D Don't overlook the possibility that the Uncle/nephew relationship may be one of Godparent or similar honorary title.
 :D And do consider posting on the RChat Scotland boards (Roxburghshire etc), for help with the 1813 era details.   
 ;) Perhaps Andrew Murray was in the army or navy before coming to NSW, or in civil administration - you don't get to be superindentent of the Carter's Barracks without some experience (many of the early appointments were people appointed by Whitehall and sent out from England specifically ... eg C N P Wilton and wife to head the Female Factory at Parramatta arrived 1827, which seems to be same era that Andrew Murray was at the Carter's Barracks.  ....

As mentioned earlier, I am not at all familiar with Scottish Records, sorry, but thank you Astral14 for adding the details to my speculations  :D

Cheers,  JM
 

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Re: Andrew E Murray:said nephew Of Sir Walter SCOTT
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 16 June 11 02:02 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

On  SUBMITTED online trees, (so needs verifying, confirming) there’s
Andrew Murray, born 27 Jan 1793, at Greenwells, Roxbrugh Scotland,  son of David Murray and Christian Buchan.
   
Andrew is shown as the husband of (no marriage details shown, except for 1813) Elizabeth Elliot.  Elizabeth Elliot is shown as born 20 Sept 1795 and died 3 Jan 1816. (born and died Gallonside, Roxburgh, Scotland). 

There is one child shown to the couple (Andrew and Elizabeth Murray m.s. Elliot)....  John Murrary born 20 June 1814, at Galashiels, Scotland and died Spanish Fork, Utah, USA 15 Nov 1880  He is shown to have married, and descendants are shown on the submitted trees...
 
Speculations again, but IF the submitted trees are “correct” then perhaps there’s a reason or two for Sir Walter writing in 1813 to Andrew (perhaps congratulations on your wedding etc) and also a reason or two for Andrew coming to NSW in 1817 (death of his wife) ...  the submitted tree does NOT give any further information about Andrew, (so no info about him in NSW, no further marriage, no end date, no explanation as to when John arrived in the USA, etc). 

There’s no apparent connection to Sir Walter Scott on those submitted trees either....


Cheers,  JM
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Offline astral14

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Re: Andrew E Murray:said nephew Of Sir Walter SCOTT
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 19 June 11 16:02 BST (UK) »
You might find that the connection is much higher up the family tree. A bit of digging has turned up an Agnes Murray, daughter of Sir Gideon Murray of Elibank who married William Scott. The story goes that William trespassed on the lands of Murray and he had him strung up to be hung unless he agreed to certain conditions, one of which was to marry his rather ugly daughter, Agnes...This William, became William Scott of Harden.

William Scott of Harden's father was Walter Scott of Harden (Auld Wat). He had another son, Walter Scott who had been converted to Quakerism. He was known as Walter Scott of Raeburn. His family had him imprisoned to try to unconvert him and took his children away from his 'evil' influence. One of these children was Walter 'Beardie' Scott, the great grandfather of the novelist, Sir Walter Scott.

I am wondering if this is the Murray connection. You will have to look at the tree of Sir Gideon Murray of Elibank.

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Re: Andrew E Murray:said nephew Of Sir Walter SCOTT
« Reply #33 on: Monday 20 June 11 03:05 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

Do you have any knowledge of a first marriage for this Andrew Murray ... perhaps she was a niece to Sir Walter ...  my reply # 31 gives some info about her, but it is drawn from a submitted online tree.  (Elizabeth Elliot 1795 -1816, marriage to Andrew c 1813) 

I suspect there would be much to learn from the folders at the NSW State Library's holdings...

Cheers,  JM

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Offline lnr

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Re: Andrew E Murray:said nephew Of Sir Walter SCOTT
« Reply #34 on: Monday 20 June 11 03:34 BST (UK) »
THANKYOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR ON GOING RESeaRCH FOR ME it is all  so very interesting,very much appreciated also . Will try to get in touch with the library soon thanks lnr

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Re: Andrew E Murray:said nephew Of Sir Walter SCOTT
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 16 February 12 00:07 GMT (UK) »
Hi

I wonder if you found the connection

Cheers JM
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