Author Topic: Naval and Military LAMBERT  (Read 16973 times)

Offline ThamesDitton

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Re: Naval and Military LAMBERT
« Reply #9 on: Monday 27 June 11 11:41 BST (UK) »
Brilliant, especially the records.  (I'd done the basic first web trawl on Henry. but not yet the early naval details and newspapers). Those are the ones and thanks for the definitive date of marriage Robert x Catherine - the latter must have been just 18 at marriage.  The Byndloss family were early settlers in Jamaica; Henry Morgan married a Byndloss; and our Lamberts have very strong Jamaican connections (General Sir John's wife Jane was a Morant - another family of early settlers; and they maintained connections in Jamaica well before Samuel got the top military job there). 

I really don't know how you do it, Valda, but it is marvellous to have someone to bounce these things off, who adds a second pair of eyes and fresh thinking.

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Offline ThamesDitton

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Re: Naval and Military LAMBERT
« Reply #10 on: Monday 27 June 11 11:58 BST (UK) »
The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography has an entry for Henry which starts

'Lambert, Henry (d. 1813), naval officer, younger son of Captain Robert Lambert (d. 1810), '

On the otherhand John Lambert's entry in ODof NB begins

'Lambert, Sir John (1772–1847), army officer, was born on 28 April 1772, the son of Captain Robert Alexander Lambert RN (c.1732–1801), '
My bolding.  So:
(a) we know this Robert - Robert Alexander Lambert x Catherine - lived at least until 1795 when he sired George Robert.
(b) we have a burial of a Robert Lambert at the same church they used for the baptism of George on 20th November 1802 (btw Nelson worshipped at St Marylebone when at home - according to the Church's website, history section)
(c) we have a Will ofa Robert Lambert proved 1806.
(d) We have conflicting DNB assertions about Robert Alexander's death, one entry giving 1801 and the other 1810.
And we have a period from 1780 to his death where, although his widow's obituary states that he was 'a Commissioner in the navy' I can find no professional or domestic trace at all of him.

Unfortunately there were loads of Lamberts everywhere.  However, the best bet seems to be that capt (and later Commissioner?) Robert Alexander Lambert died abt 1801/2, and after the Leviathan foundered, he may have had a quieter life on shore (apart from the kids!)

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Offline Valda

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Re: Naval and Military LAMBERT
« Reply #11 on: Monday 27 June 11 12:50 BST (UK) »
Hi


Catherine could have been as young as 16 at the time of her marriage. Robert would have been about 36. If the marriage was by licence there may some more information. Worth checking with Hampshire Record Office for the full entry from the register.
These places are close to Winchester.

You could obtain a copy of the PCC will. Its a risk though, as you say plenty of Robert Lamberts around and naval officers often don't write wills.


Regards

Valda
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Offline ThamesDitton

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Re: Naval and Military LAMBERT
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 28 June 11 19:48 BST (UK) »
Still on the Lamberts, I have now trawled various sources to fill out details on Henry, George and Samuel.  I am particularly missing the following bits:

1.  date and place of birth of Henry Lambert later Capt Henry Lambert RN (4 Jan 1813 died & buried Bahia aka Salvador Brazil) son of Robert Alexander Lambert and Catherine nee Byndloss.  Birth could be any year from 1773 - 1784 but most likely 1777-1780.  No middle names known to me.  He married Caroline nee Hall in August 1811.  He had a year at home before sailing on HMS Java and I don't think they had any issue (Caroline married again 18 months after Henry was killed)

2.  Any record of Capt. Robert Alexander Lambert's shore career in the Navy between 1780 and his putative death in the early 1800s.

3.  Any details of Adm. George Robert Lambert's (3 Oct 1775 - 6 June 1860)  wife / marriage.  They produced at least Rev Harry Lambert, third son; Maj Frederick William Lambert (Indian Army) both of whom married direct cousins, daughters of General Sir John Lambert GCB; Rowley Lambert (see earlier posts in this thread) and Arthur Lambert Esq late Royal Artillery, died aged 33 Mar 24, on 23 March 1860 at 34 Albion-street

4.  I will try to track one or two census records (I have some for Rowley Lambert) but the connection to Ancestry.com from our local library is painfully slow and I am not very handy.  I would love census or any other property records any time in the 19th century for:
a.  Weston House, Weston Green, Thames Ditton (home successively to Robert Stuart Lambert (from abt 1899 to 1836, then his brother Gen. Sir John Lambert until his death in 1847, then from some point the latter's son Gen John Arthur Lambert who earlier lived nearby
b.  Valuation List 1880: a Capt Lambert occupied Blandford Cottage Weston Green TD owned by fnu Abrahams (no idea yet which young Lambert this was, but the present occupants of that cottage have some historical research on their house))
c.  Valuation List 1880: Rowley Lambert occupied Grubbes House in Weston Green or Thames Ditton owned by Hannibal Speer. (alas this house name is no longer around)
d.  as captain, George Robert had 'a cottage' in Weston Green from about 1830-1841
e.  as Admiral, George Robert occupied Norbiton Place, Kingston  between abt 1852-1865

As always, most grateful for any help on these.

Offline ThamesDitton

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Re: Naval and Military LAMBERT
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 30 June 11 14:16 BST (UK) »
A little further:
a.  From the PO directory 1878 the Capt Lambert occupying Blandford cottage in 1880 can be identified as (most probably)  Robert Lambert  Capt 43rd Light Infantry, 2nd son of Sir John Lambert GCB,  b Oct 25 1818 died Sep 18 1891.

b.  Robert Francis Lambert mentioned earlier in this thread:  memorial with other Lambert memorials in St Nicholas Church TD but questioned by Valda whether would be another son named Robert of Capt Robert Alexander Lambert x Catherine nee Byndloss: I have found a Robert Francis Lambert who was a partner with William Shrubsole in a bank in nearby Kingston upon Thames that became part of National Westminster Bank eventually.  The Shrubsole family tree at http://www.shrubsolefamilytree.co.uk/william_shrubsole_1775_1848.htm has a Robert Francis Lambert as partner for 55 years, dying abt. 1865-9  The Thames Ditton Lambert of that name died in 1864 aged 78.  Possibly i/d?  Apart from the contiguity of the plaque with our other Lamberts' I have not yet found a link for this Robert Francis to my main line of Lamberts.  But there was the line of their cousins connected with the Baronetcy (at the time under study, Sir Henry lambert Bt)

Offline Valda

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Re: Naval and Military LAMBERT
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 03 July 11 11:02 BST (UK) »
Hi

Deaths Jun 1869   
Lambert  George Robert  73  Westminster, St. J.  1a 273
seized with a fit of apoplexy and died in a few minutes
baptism 3rd October 1795 born 8th September

Deaths Dec 1861
Lambert  Katherine     Hastings  2b 15


Arthur Lambert
Christening:  14 MAR 1827   Lyonshall, Hereford
Father:  George Lambert 
Mother:  Katherine 

Rowley Lambert
Christening:  24 MAY 1828   Lyonshall, Hereford
Father:  George Lambert   
Mother:  Katherine 

FREDERICK WILLIAM LAMBERT 
Christening:  04 NOV 1829   Thames Ditton, Surrey
Father:  GEORGE ROBERT LAMBERT 
Mother:  KATHERINE
father Captain Royal Navy

KATHERINE GEORGIANA LAMBERT 
Birth:  16 FEB 1838   
Christening:  06 APR 1838   Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, Saint Marylebone, London
Father:  GEORGE ROBERT LAMBERT   
Mother:  KATHERINE
8 Hinde Street, father Captain Royal Navy


1861 census RG9 560 folio 129
3 Robertson Terrace Hastings Sussex
George R Lambert 65 Head Married Vice admiral R N K C B Marylebone London
Katherine Lambert 59 Wife Married Sittingbourne Kent
Katherine G Lambert 23 Daughter Marylebone London
Margaret K Cobb 13 Niece Ightham Kent (in the household in 1851)
plus servants

1851 census HO107 1603 folio 126
Norbiton Kingston-upon-Thames Surrey
Catherine Lambert 40 Head Married Wife Commmodore Lambert Sittingbourne Kent
Harry Lambert 25 Son No profession Stoke Dameral Devon
Catherine Georg. Lambert 13 Daughter Marylebone Middlesex
servants and visitors

1841 census HO107 1071/9 folio 23
Weston Green Thames Ditton Surrey
George Lambert 45 Navy
Katherine Lambert 35
Arthur Lambert 14
Frederick Lambert 11
Georgeana Lambert 3
Harry Lambert 15
only Frederick born in county
plus 6 servants


This tree states Katherine Cobb married George Robert Lambert 27th May 1822 - doesn't state where

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cobb/kent_ged/d0000/g0000022.html#I320


Regards

Valda
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Offline ThamesDitton

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Re: Naval and Military LAMBERT
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 03 July 11 14:21 BST (UK) »
Fantastic, Valda - thanks so much - again! 
Deaths Jun 1869   
Lambert  George Robert  73  Westminster, St. J.  1a 273
seized with a fit of apoplexy and died in a few minutes
baptism 3rd October 1795 born 8th September
An appropriate cause of death for one known as 'the Combustible Commodore' - see below

Quote
Rowley Lambert
Christening:  24 MAY 1828   Lyonshall, Hereford
Father:  George Lambert   
Mother:  Katherine 
In the 1861 census Rowley - then listed as 'near Smyrna' (he was capt of the Scylla at that time) - was recorded as born 'Bredwardine, Hertfordshire' and in 1871`  as born at 'Birdwardine, Herefordshire' so perhaps he was born at Bredward in Herefordshire and christened at nearby Lyonshall?

Quote
FREDERICK WILLIAM LAMBERT 
Christening:  04 NOV 1829   Thames Ditton, Surrey
Father:  GEORGE ROBERT LAMBERT 
Mother:  KATHERINE
father Captain Royal Navy
That fits - in 1829 I believe he was in between postings and probably living at a 'cottage' near Weston House (owned then by elder brother Adm Robert Lambert), quite possibly the one known as Blandford Cottage; or he might have been living at Weston House with his brother.
Quote
KATHERINE GEORGIANA LAMBERT 
Birth:  16 FEB 1838   
Christening:  06 APR 1838   Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, Saint Marylebone, London
Father:  GEORGE ROBERT LAMBERT   
Mother:  KATHERINE
8 Hinde Street, father Captain Royal Navy
Interesting new address - again, from late 1835 to probably mid-1845 George Robert was ashore.  He was mostly resident in Thames Ditton (Weston Green) then and even in 1824, when he was away captaining HMS Alligator in the East Indies and australasia, he was responsible for the rates for a cottage here (according to Vestry minutes).  The Hinde street/St Marylebone connection is worth looking at - St Marylebone having figured in Robert's timeline.
Quote
1861 census RG9 560 folio 129
3 Robertson Terrace Hastings Sussex
George R Lambert 65 Head Married Vice admiral R N K C B Marylebone London
Katherine Lambert 59 Wife Married Sittingbourne Kent
Katherine G Lambert 23 Daughter Marylebone London
Margaret K Cobb 13 Niece Ightham Kent (in the household in 1851)
plus servants
Another interesting new address.
Quote
1851 census HO107 1603 folio 126
Norbiton Kingston-upon-Thames Surrey
Catherine Lambert 40 Head Married Wife Commmodore Lambert Sittingbourne Kent
Harry Lambert 25 Son No profession Stoke Dameral Devon
Catherine Georg. Lambert 13 Daughter Marylebone Middlesex
servants and visitors
Catherine was head because George was away starting the second Burmese War - his aggressive provocation of the Burmese, subject of a subsequent Victorian cover-up, earned him the epithet of the "Combustible Commodore".  Harry took holy orders.
Quote
1841 census HO107 1071/9 folio 23
Weston Green Thames Ditton Surrey
George Lambert 45 Navy
Katherine Lambert 35
Arthur Lambert 14
Frederick Lambert 11
Georgeana Lambert 3
Harry Lambert 15
only Frederick born in county
plus 6 servants
This is very useful - this might have been at Weston House (in view of the household size) but I have yet to do the timeline for the House (General Sir John acquired it at some time after his elder brother Robert died in 1836).  What is clear is that the Lamberts were all very close, and that Weston House and at least two, probably three other houses and nine retainers' cottages served them as a base in between postings.  Also, that the Lambert womenfolk quite often returned to their family elsewhere to give birth, particularly if their husbands were on active duty.

Thanks again, Valda - invaluable.



Offline ThamesDitton

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Re: Naval and Military LAMBERT
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 07 July 11 17:35 BST (UK) »
From parish records I have (my assumptions in [[square brackets ]]):

25 Oct 1798 Weston Green, rates, Capt [[ Robert ]] Lambert purchase [[ of Weston House from Lady Twysden, George Jarvis' daughter, who now disappears from the rate book]] £3925,  assessed at £157 Ho. Gds.

January 1801 Capt [[Robert]] Lambert appears for first time in parish vestry records.  Then periodically until 1835, apart from when at sea.

19 May 1819 Adm [[Robert]]Lambert assessed for 9 cottages [[ seven remaining are known as "Admiral's Row" built probably for his seafaring retainers/servants, perhaps he owned or rented two others ]]

24 Sept 1823: Capt [[ George - by then Robert was an Admiral ]] Lambert assessed for a property late of Robert Taylor [[ owner of Imber/Ember Court, just deceased ]] for £35

1824 Capt Geo Lambert in Weston Green £35
and Adm Lambert £157 [[ presumed Weston House ]] + £40 for cottages [[presumed the 9 cottages built around 1819]]

20 May 1824  Vestry: Adm Lambert proposed that an Organist should be offered fifteen guineas a year to play the organ twice on Sundays, on Christmas day and Good Friday and all occasions that may be required.  Agreed.  (plus sixpence a day for a boy for blowing the bellows)

1829  Sept Adm Lambert £157 for house and grounds and and Capt Geo Lambert £40  for 'cottage' [[likely Blandford Cottage which these days is regarded as a rather nice large house!]]

1836  Capt Geo Lambert on Jury List as 'rent' (as opposed to freehold)

1838 Mrs Lambert is at Weston Green no prems -   £93.10s  [[  Adm Robert died in 1836 at Weston House; his wife Charlotte had died earlier.  George was not yet knighted so the only Lady Lambert around here at that time was the wife of General Sir John who did take over Weston House at some point after his elder brother Robert's death ]]

Then 1839 July  Capt Geo Lambert no prems £93.10s [[ but Sir John still extant ]]

Pigot's November 1839 Geo Lambert is at "Western House" [[ = Weston House]]

1841 rates: Sir John Lambert  Ho. Prem  £83
                  Capt Geo Lambert do.
[[ presumably now both at Weston House - or given your 1841 census above, perhaps Gen Sir John owned it by now, while George and family were in occupation on census day and responsible for the rates? ]]

Meanwhile I see that there is a LAMBERT    Robert    died 1805-6    probate same year   Royal Navy    (only one on Find My Past listed as RN at that time) so that might be my candidate for the death of Robert Alexander Lambert whose naval career after the Leviathan went down in 1780 remains a mystery apart from his widow's newspaper obituary where he was said to be 'a Commissioner in the Royal Navy'



Offline ThamesDitton

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Re: Naval and Military LAMBERT
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 03 August 11 10:24 BST (UK) »
Hi
According to these trees it was Charlotte Pigou
http://www.merchantnetworks.com.au/genealogy/web/pigou/pafg04.htm
http://www.egyptologie.be/amsterdam_crommelin_vanhoorn.htm

11th December 1799 St Marylebone Middlesex
Robert Lambert Esquire bachelor of the parish
Charlotte Pigou spinster of the parish
married by licence
Both signed
Witnesses Frederick Pigou and Sophia ?


Baptism

24th April 1803 St Marylebone, Middlesex born 26th March
John Lambert parents Captain Robert Lambert R N and Charlotte

Regards
Valda
Just to add, in case it is of use to others, that I have now come across Frederic Pigou in Biden's History and Antiquities of Kingston upon Thames (1852), in a list of memorials in All Saints Church Kingston.

In the Great Chancel, pavement, "Frederic Pigou, esq., died November 30, 1792"
(This is presumably Frederic father of Charlotte according to the first web site genealogy you mention above, a director of the East India Company)