Author Topic: Groom,Rathbone,Tollner and Rose family of Natal  (Read 10104 times)

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Groom,Rathbone,Tollner and Rose family of Natal
« on: Thursday 14 July 11 10:24 BST (UK) »
Help needed with tracing the families below please.

From NAAIRS and other sources I found the following.
1900-Henry Edward GROOM, LOWER TUGELA STATES PACKAGES ADDRESSED TO MRS. ASHBY       
           CONTAINED PARTS OF RHINOCERUS HEADS.

1958- GROOM, CHARLES LANCELOT HESSETT. BORN IN ENGLAND. S/SP GROOM ADELINE ROSE. DECEASED ESTATE.

Gertrude Mary Groom born 1875 London. Died 16th July 1953 in Durban. Married 23rd April 1894. Frederick Thomas William RATHBONE born 14th March 1869. Died 7th Jul 1939.

Children from their marriage.
1.   Constance Harriet RATHBONE (189??-1968), born Pietermaritzburg, Natal.
2.   Ethel Winifred RATHBONE (189?-1964), born Durban, Natal.
3.   Gladys Gertrude RATHBONE (189?-19??) - known as "Bunny".
4.   Mabel Josephine RATHBONE (190?-1967).
5.   Natalia Maud RATHBONE (12 Feb 1907-6 Apr 1971).
6.   Robert RATHBONE (c1908-19??) - died young of concussion.
7.   Frederick Thomas RATHBONE (12 Feb 1910-2 May 1964).

 
Claud Albert Groom born 1882.Died  .Married?

1937- MABEL ELIZABETH. (BORN GROOM) (S/S JIM MEREDITH MILLER).

William Michael Tollner (Jnr) married second time to Maud Marion Francis Groom born 1878 Le Havre France. Died 1951 Natal.
Children from this marriage:
1.   Irene
2.   Constance
3.   Gwen
4.   Son number 1

Leon James Groom- DEPOT     McGregor Museum, Kimberley                                           
TYPE      Manuscript                                                           
REFERENCE MMK7590/1-989                                                         
DESCRIPTION          Griqualand West Board of Executors.                                   
STARTING  1900                                                                 
ENDING    1960                                                                 
REMARKS   Donor: Griqualand West Board of Executors, Kimberley. Book           
          catalogue and card catalogue available. 22,40 lin. m.                 
SUMMARY   +    Solvent and insolvent estates done by the Griqualand West       
               Board of Executors. Does this mean Leon died in the Cape?

DESCRIPTION          GROOM, CHARLES LANCELOT HESSETT. BORN IN ENGLAND. S/SP GROOM,         
           ADELINE ROSE. DECEASED ESTATE.                                       
STARTING  19580000                                                             
ENDING    19580000                                                             


1905-Letter written on the 8/5/1905 by the chief doctor from Addington Hospital Durban South Africa states that Constance Harriett Groom had been employed there for the last 18 months. Which means she started there about November 1903. From here she must have gone to Vryheid South Africa as shown below.

1906- DESCRIPTION          SISTERS MILLS AND GROOM SUNNYSIDE NURSING HOME VRYHEID. WRITES WITH REFERENCE TO THE RENEWAL OF THE GOVERNMENT GRANT $150 PER ANNUM.

In 1906 she married my grandfather William Percival Austin who fought in the Boer War 1900-1902, and then served in the NDMR in Vryheid from 1903-1913.

Any help with the above appreciated.

Regards Derek
Austin, Ayling, Alborough, Bescoby, Cheal, Groom,Rathbone,Tarboton,Lyell and Smith.

Offline Evilkitty

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Re: Groom,Rathbone,Tollner and Rose family of Natal
« Reply #1 on: Monday 23 April 12 09:17 BST (UK) »
Good Day

My Paternal Grandmother was Natalia Maud Rathbone and she was married Cedric Norman Baldwin and their children where George Colin (my father)\Leo and Gloria Mary there was another child who died at an early age


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Re: Groom,Rathbone,Tollner and Rose family of Natal
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 09 May 12 10:12 BST (UK) »
Hi Evilkitty I would like to share some info with you.Before we can use the personal messages you have to post 3 posts on this forum otherwise it will not work.Also do not put your email address on the forum.
So to reply put I would love to hear from you then post.Next post put still waiting for a reply then post.You should then see 3 posts under your name.Cheers Derek
Austin, Ayling, Alborough, Bescoby, Cheal, Groom,Rathbone,Tarboton,Lyell and Smith.

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Re: Groom,Rathbone,Tollner and Rose family of Natal
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 14 November 13 11:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi Derek, I came across your researches ref;-  Groom and Miller.
   Part of my family comes from Jim Meredith Miller's (also known as "Pim") brother William Henry Miller, who left his wife and family. I was told that WHM went to SA gold prospecting. But Jim's grandson in SA has told me the following;- that they both joined the British Army, sent to India and then to SA to re-inforce during the boer war. Jim was in the Natal colonials and was a scout under baden-powell at ladysmith. After the war he was in the ZAAPS Natal mounted police, which brought him to Tugela river hotel and Mabel Elizabeth groom. They married in St Cyprians church.
   The Grandson said that for 4 generations they've tried to find out where the "Meredith" came from without success, but all the children and their children have it.
     Jim and mabel separated i think, he lived on a house-boat called "Pumela" Zulu for rest. He broke in horses for the army and was a harbour guard at durban, where "he was rowed about the harbour by two zulus2, He had a chandlers and the nick-name of "manzi"meaning water.
  This is his letter to me;-
      I must confess that I was surprise and confused at that until I reread my letter and realised the vein I had put it and I sincerely apologise for it .Yesterday I had just returned from visiting my wife in the intensive care unit , where she has for 3 days been recovering from a serious operation and had spent the night before and most of yesterday at the hospital,I did not proof read the letter however I thought I had possibly been rambling on to long and that I might be boring 'You' Please be assured that no way I felt the way it came across. Enough said ,
   Regarding the Meredith issue this has confounded my family for 4 generations I was hoping to resolve this within the Sarah Hardy family as it seemed to start there us having no information regarding that branch of the family possibly it might come out now. As for the Miller line coming to South Africa, my father James 'Meredith 'Miller born 1903 told me this. Jim Meredith Miller it seems joined the British Army along with his brother William they were sent to India until the 1st World War when they were relocated to British South West Africa to appose the German invasion, as I was 2 when Jim M.my Grandfather passed away ( incidentally his pet family name was"Pim") I recollect a vague figure as he lived with us for about a year then returned to Durban to be with Constance Millicent my father's older sister, I never saw him again.As for William -- I never knew him but it seems he was here as I once presented my eldest (half) brother "we were never to regard each other as such," a copy of the 1881 census he exclaimed "hey there's Uncle Willie ! " he had obviously seen him ( my eldest brother was 20 years older than me) . Pim as we knew him was declared unfit for military duty and relieved from duty as a Signalman suffering from Malaria he then joined the Natal Colonials and was a scout/ reconnaissance trooper and was seconded to Badenpowel at the siege of Ladysmith after the Boer war he again joined the Natal Mounted Police (ZAAPs)and patrolled the Natal North Coast from Durban to Zululand , having to overnight at the Tugela River Ferry and hotel where he met my Grandmother Mabel Elizabeth Groom one of the daughters of the Ferry and hotel proprietors daughters ( Mr Henry Edward Groom) Pim undertook to desert the ZAAP s and eloped with my Grandmother through Zululand into what is now the Kruger national Park then into Durban to be married at St Cyprians Church. My father was unsure of his birthplace but recalled helping Pim (his father to break in horses to be sold to the British army in Pretoria. Pim it seems was a character of note, His wife my Grandmother divorced him as she could not see herself moving back to Durban to retire onto his houseboat and drift around Durban Harbour where he again after going on pension found employment as Harbour Guard (having 2 Zulus row him around daily ) to ensure all obstructions and floating debris were cleared of the waterway, Apparently he and having taught my father to box and earned prize money in bare fist boxing at the Seaman's Club (owned by Harry Moore who later married Constance my fathers sister,) He died in Durban and shares a grave in West St. cemetery with Maude his daughter,Mabel his ex wife,(Maude died of a black widow spider bite @ a young age being his first child,Constance Millicent his second, and James Meredith my father (Ted) there is a book I recall seeing when I was about 6 called Pumula (Zulu for place of rest) named after his Houseboat giving an account of his life , it floated about the house then drifted away. I hope this answers some of your questions looking forward to hearing from you again.
  I would send asome pictures of him, but  do not know how to attach them.Also could you tell me where are you located and your link to the Millers please?
    Yours
       P.Wheeler


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Re: Groom,Rathbone,Tollner and Rose family of Natal
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 14 November 13 11:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi Tuttismuss thanks for your reply. If you make one more post on this site we can then send personal messages to each other. Do not put your email address up here as it is not allowed. In a nutshell my paternal grandmother was Mabel's sister hence the connection. Is this letter from Doug Miller? If so he has been corresponding with me but have not heard from him for some time. I live in Brisbane but will be returning to Durban over Xmas and would like to meet with Doug. Can you tell me your connection to the family in more detail?
Austin, Ayling, Alborough, Bescoby, Cheal, Groom,Rathbone,Tarboton,Lyell and Smith.

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Re: Groom,Rathbone,Tollner and Rose family of Natal
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 14 November 13 17:28 GMT (UK) »
Hi Derek,
              Thanks for your e-mail reply. Yes all that is in bold is doug's letter from about 18 months ago. At the time there was illness in the family, but I have not heard from him since then.
    William Henry Miller was Jim's (Pim) brother and he had married into the Caus(i)er family in Birmingham, England, Reading between the lines as it seems to have caused major upheaval to the children and their children. He seems to have left England with Jim and joined the army initially to india then to SA, according to Doug and also left Catherine Causier and their children. Although my mother was told he'd gone gold prospecting with no reference to him having a family, Catherine found a new husband and had lots of sons, who my Mother knew as Uncles and they even exchanged Birthday cards in the late 1940's. But William's children by Catherine got the rough end of the stick.
    My side comes from William Henry Miller's son, another Wm Hy Miller who would be my Grandfather.
   I don't know what happened to Wm Hy Miller while in SA, or if went back to England. Doug has some photos of Jim though.

     Yours
        Phill

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Re: Groom,Rathbone,Tollner and Rose family of Natal
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 30 November 13 13:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi Phil found this in the archives DEPOT     
KAB        SOURCE    MOOC   TYPE      LEER     VOLUME_NO 13/1/1665  SYSTEM    01          REFERENCE 150    PART      1   DESCRIPTION   MILLER, WILLIAM HENRY. LIQUIDATION AND DISTRIBUTION ACCOUNT.  STARTING  19080000    ENDING    19080000.

DEPOT     KAB   SOURCE    MOOC    TYPE      LEER     VOLUME_NO 6/9/8802    SYSTEM    01    REFERENCE 78296     PART      1        DESCRIPTION          MILLER, WILLIAM HENRY. ESTATE PAPERS.           STARTING  19420000       ENDING    19420000.

It appears to be WH Millers estate file. If you want a copy I can ask if someone can go transcribe the file in Cape Town, this is a voluntary request relying on someone's generosity. No photocopying or photos allowed.

Then I found this DEPOT     NAB  MSCE     TYPE  LEER        VOLUME_NO 0                          SYSTEM    01    REFERENCE 30013/1939      PART      1     DESCRIPTION          MILLER, WILLIAM HENRY. (S/S ALLETA JOHANNA; BORN HOUGH).        STARTING 1939        ENDING    1940

Any idea if he married? If so do you know her name?

Regards Derek
Austin, Ayling, Alborough, Bescoby, Cheal, Groom,Rathbone,Tarboton,Lyell and Smith.

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Re: Groom,Rathbone,Tollner and Rose family of Natal
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 01 December 13 18:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi Derek,
            Thank you for the e-mail and references.
  Well if you think someone would copy it, one can only ask as they say, it would be enlightening to flesh him out.
    From the moment he must have left, as part of the morals and society it happened in, silence must have descended, as it would have been considered a family scandal. So the prospecting story came about for the children and so it was passed on. But Catherine's remarriage to Mr Surrall, must have brought it to the fore again, hence my Moms' reticence whenever I inquired who Surrall was when doing FH even as late as the 70's.   I found parts of the jig-saw through the electoral rolls and the Census's as to how the family changed shape, but to late to see if Mom knew the truth.
 Sorry we know only what Doug told me last year. He's photos of Jim have the Miller resemblance though, I was surprised that he was not taller. His nephew my grandfather was about 5'10" and a club cyclist, mom said he also rowed, though I have no evidence for that.

    All the best
       Phill

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Re: Groom,Rathbone,Tollner and Rose family of Natal
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 03 December 13 12:27 GMT (UK) »
Phil do you have any pictures of Jim Miller?

Doug gave me one photo of Mabel.

Regards Derek
Austin, Ayling, Alborough, Bescoby, Cheal, Groom,Rathbone,Tarboton,Lyell and Smith.