Author Topic: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's  (Read 13266 times)

Offline Pastmagic

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,375
  • Levington House, Mullingar
    • View Profile
Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 23 July 11 18:06 BST (UK) »
Looking around for other possible father's for your Robert, long shot:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=7&CATID=-6240457&j=1

Scope and content   
ROBERT ECCLES.
Born CLONES, Monaghan.
Served in 43rd Foot Regiment.
Discharged aged 28.
Covering dates give year of enlistment to year of discharge.
Kilmainham Reference: A15908.
Covering dates   1808-1818
Held by   
The National Archives, Kew
Legal status   Public Record(s)

Offline Pastmagic

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,375
  • Levington House, Mullingar
    • View Profile
Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 23 July 11 18:17 BST (UK) »
Looks like Mounjoy was photographed extensively in 1857 in this archive - you may have to do a bit of detective work to track it down, but given the context, it would not surprise me if your Robert was photographed in this "experiment". PM

http://web.mit.edu/comm-forum/mit6/papers/Baylis.pdf

Or at least, the prisoners he was in charge of!

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Search/Results?daterange%5B%5D=publishDate&publishDatefrom=1800&publishDateto=1900&lookfor=%22+Mountjoy+Prison%22&type=Subject&submit=FIND


For a Contemporary Drawing of prisoners and guards.

Here is a R Eccles in Mountjoy 1850.

"the sessional papers" - again Google Books, an obscure lower case title.



Offline hotfix123

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 35
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 23 July 11 21:31 BST (UK) »
Great Pastmagic.
You've really fleshed him out for me. I've had a look at the photo's from 1857 (While Robert was in Mountjoy). They are photo's of prisoners only but fascinating none the less. Strange to think that some or all of them may well have had contact with Robert.
I've ordered the Military Records for Robert Eccles (b 1790, Clones). I have previously viewed other Military Records for Robert Eccles's with no joy but one never knows. Maybe this will be the one to unlock the mystery.
Your efforts are much appreciated. I'm amazed how much I've learned from this posting.
Cheers
Phil
Murphy; Avoca, Wicklow & Dublin City. Harling; Dublin & Meath. Grimes; Dublin. Potter; Dublin. Eccles; Dublin. Hanlon; Swords, Dublin & Royal Artillery. Hood; Ballinderry, Antrim & Royal Artillery. Whitlow; Woolwich, London & Royal Artillery

Offline Pastmagic

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,375
  • Levington House, Mullingar
    • View Profile
Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 24 July 11 10:38 BST (UK) »
Delighted you found at least some answers on here. Scraping the barrel a bit here, but this is all I can think of.

Prison officers were sometimes recruited from ex army sources, so it is worth looking to see if Robert himself was ever in the army. Another possibility is  that he was in the Royal Irish Constabulary, records are  in the Dublin City library R I C Records 1816 - 1922

General registers of service, returns of personnel and intelligence notices, 1816 - 1922.

Service Nos. 1 - 4000, v. 1-2 (1816 - 1840)  Reel Number: 856057

Also you could consider trying to track staff records for Richmond, Newgate etc. to see if he was working in another prison before Mountjoy.

Looking around for a birth for Robert has not turned up anything that leads directly to him, but there are certainly a lot of men of the right age to be his father of the surname Eccles in Ireland and abroad at the time.

Have you considered that he might have been an illegitimate son of either a male or female Eccles - I have a similar case with a Brabazon on my tree c. 1770 - not a trace of him anywhere, but he married one of my female line and lived right beside the main lot.

It might be worth having a look at any surviving wills or will abstracts of the Dublin, Tyrone and Clones Eccles to see if there is any mention of a natural son who might fit the bill, in the National Archives.

Mountjoy: the story of a prison by Tim Carey Collins Press, 2000, might be of interest, and it might be worth contacting the author.

PRONI holdings for this family include:

ECCLES    Estate    Fintona / Tyr    Title deeds, etc.    1773 - 1823    D 674
ECCLES  Anna     Dublin    Will    c1816    D 2081
ECCLES  family    Cos. Fer,Cav,Tyr    Gen. notes    c1700 - 1914    T 1299
ECCLES  family    Dublin    Gen. notes    1296 - c1963    D 2081
ECCLES  family    Enniskillen / Fer    Pedigree    17c - 19c    T 1185
ECCLES  family    Fintona / Tyr    Leases, deeds etc    1752 - 1879    D 3850
ECCLES  family    Fintona / Tyr    Corresp. etc    1869 - 1930    D 1385
ECCLES  family   Estate    Fintona / Tyr    Title deeds    c1790 - 1830    D 1020
ECCLES  family  Estate    Fintona / Tyr    Title deeds    1659 - 1867    D 1048
ECCLES  William    Belfast    Copy Will    c1835    Mic/61add

Not digitalised,  but if you did find a link to your Robert, than might make an interesting day out in Belfast.

House of Commons papers, Volume  51, 53  and 54 By Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons (free on google books) have lots of interesting general stuff about the Joy in the period Robert was there, for background info.

The Mountjoy prison archives themselves have survived and are in the National Archive. Whether Robert turns up there is anyone's guess, but you might find them of interest. National Archives call nos.: 1/11/1-4, 9-17, 29-33, 36 for 1845-1899.

There is one curiosity in the NLI:

Photostat' copies of a family record drawn up, c. 1850, by Anna Maria Dickson, together with pedigrees of the Eccles family, compiled, c. 1800. Originals in the possession of Rev. J. M. McWilliam, Dumfriesshire, Scotland.

She is on the tree you mention here on Post 10, I think, and this could possibly be the source for that tree.

Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Ms. 8371. But it would be a seriously long shot to find your Robert there.

Sorry there is not much concrete there!

PM






Offline hotfix123

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 35
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #22 on: Monday 25 July 11 10:49 BST (UK) »
Thanks a million once again Pastmagic. You're a star
You've certainly given me lots to think about. I had hit a wall with this maybe 2 years ago and concentrated on other areas of my tree. Now I have a far better idea of who he might be and some great leads. Who knows where they'll lead.
Cheers
Phil
Murphy; Avoca, Wicklow & Dublin City. Harling; Dublin & Meath. Grimes; Dublin. Potter; Dublin. Eccles; Dublin. Hanlon; Swords, Dublin & Royal Artillery. Hood; Ballinderry, Antrim & Royal Artillery. Whitlow; Woolwich, London & Royal Artillery

Offline The Historicist

  • RootsChat Pioneer
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #23 on: Friday 28 September 12 17:06 BST (UK) »
Hi

I found the RootsChat web site almost by accident and I was even more surprised to find your connection with Robert Eccles; my 2xgreat grandfather and his wife Mary nee Smyth/Smith.

I have been in contact with the owner of a Robert Eccles family tree on ancestry and I hope you are not that same person; if so, please, forgive me and spare my embarrassment. 

Like you I have a family tree which was probably produced, I would guess, around 1890, together with other related papers and letters.  Nearly all were given to me by my great uncle, Ted Eccles, in the 1960’s.  He was living in Australia.  I am wondering if the family tree I have is exactly the same as the one you have and that they are copies of the same original.

If this is the case, as I think it may well be, then our two families are probably very closely related.

I understand that some members of, Michal Edward Eccles, my grandfather’s siblings and possibly his parents, Edward Phoenix Eccles and Mary (nee Callaghan/Callanan), went to Canada and this may indicate yet another close link.  Michal Edward was born in Broughton, Salford, Manchester in 1876.
The occupation of his grandfather on the certificate at his parents’ wedding is given as prison warder. Family tradition says he was a prison warder in the Castle, Dublin.

I look forward to hearing from you concerning what has been for me a very elusive family.

Best regards

David

PS
I’m new to RootsChat as you were back in July 2011.









Offline Olivia Ashmore

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 13 May 17 21:26 BST (UK) »
We had a robert eccles educated in Ballitore Quaker School 1753 we are trying to find information on students that attended this famous school