Author Topic: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's  (Read 13236 times)

Offline hotfix123

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Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 20 July 11 14:30 BST (UK) »
Wow, Thanks Shane & Aghadowey You guys are a mine of info.
I thought a possible link to Cuthbert Eccles was slim but one which at least needed to be proven/disproven. The more I look at the info you have given me the more I question a link even further. Given the ESQ status of Cuthbert Eccles, The Army Major son and the strong Anglican Church connections I really wonder how likely it would be that a son of Cuthbert would become a relatively lowly prison warder married into a middle class catholic family.
I first heard the family stories from elderly relatives in New York 1970. These were grandchildren of Robert and at the time I dismissed their claims that we were descended from landed gentry. Specifically they claimed we were directly descended from Gilbert Eccles b 1602 Kildonan, Ayrshire, Scotland, d 1694 Shannock, Co. Fermanagh. They had a family tree (which I still have) purporting to show that Robert was a son of Daniel Eccles b 1787 Ecclesville Fintona, d 1869 Monaghan. However, there is no proof offered that this connection is correct and given that I have established other inaccuracy's in it I very much doubt it. I have found reference to Daniel Eccles will with an estate of £250 but no mention of a son Robert (though it is possible that he pre deceased Daniel). The name Robert recurs in almost every generation of the Ecclesville Eccles from the 1600's on.
So, while I have my doubts about somebody from either of the above backgrounds becoming a prison warder and despite some errors by the aging relatives they did have some accurate info relating to Eccles of Ecclesville that I feel sure must have been handed down through the family and that there is some truth in the stories.

Phil   
Murphy; Avoca, Wicklow & Dublin City. Harling; Dublin & Meath. Grimes; Dublin. Potter; Dublin. Eccles; Dublin. Hanlon; Swords, Dublin & Royal Artillery. Hood; Ballinderry, Antrim & Royal Artillery. Whitlow; Woolwich, London & Royal Artillery

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 20 July 11 14:47 BST (UK) »
This family tree doesn't show any marriage or descendants for that Daniel Eccles- however, it may not be complete:
http://www.mcclintockofseskinore.co.uk/Descendants%20of%20Gilbert%20Eccles.pdf

From PRONI- "Letters of Administration (with the Will annexed) of the personal estate of Daniel Eccles late of Fintona County Tyrone Esquire deceased who died 12 January 1869 at same place were granted at Armagh to John Dickson Eccles of Ecclesville Fintona in said County Esquire one of the Children of Testator and as such one of the Residuary Legatees."
Daniel seems to have been very thorough about including family in his Will as well as mentioning relationships... brother Charles Edward Eccles, uncle Robert Gilbert Eccles, nephew Charles Eccles of Ecclesville, children of eldest son Daniel Eccles (dec'd), children of eldest daughter Susan Martha Ellis (James Soden? Ellis, James Eccles Ellis, Louisa Ellis), children of Anna Rebecca McKee, Gerrard Macklin Eccles & wife Isabella Letitia Eccles, children of son John Dixon Eccles.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline hotfix123

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Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 20 July 11 15:54 BST (UK) »
Thanks a million for that Aghadowey.
Had seen that tree and in fact the tree I have which seemingly was prepared by a professional genealogist in the 1960's and not quite as extensive does give the same info including indicating that Daniel was married but gives no details as to spouse or offspring except that it shows my line as being descended from Daniel through "Son Eccles b 1818". That is my main concern. It looks to me like somebody just tacked on my family through this mysterious "Son Eccles". Why, given the level of detail contained in the Eccles Tree up to Daniel, would the researcher not have Roberts name. As you point out Daniel was meticulous in preparing his will yet there is no mention of a son Robert or his family. I have long suspected that some unscrupulous researcher constructed the tree I have in order to confirm a preconceived notion and todays info reinforces that view. I think I can forget a link to Daniel.
I am also sceptical about a link to Cuthbert Eccles. I reckon maybe the only hope I have of a clue will be if there was a death notice so I will have to try to narrow down the possible dates of death.
Thanks a million for all your help Shane & Aghadowey. It has helped clarify a lot in my mind.

Cheers

Phil 
Murphy; Avoca, Wicklow & Dublin City. Harling; Dublin & Meath. Grimes; Dublin. Potter; Dublin. Eccles; Dublin. Hanlon; Swords, Dublin & Royal Artillery. Hood; Ballinderry, Antrim & Royal Artillery. Whitlow; Woolwich, London & Royal Artillery

Offline shanew147

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Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 20 July 11 19:38 BST (UK) »
1858 - 11 Phibsborough, Mr. Robert Eccles

1863 - 11 Phibsborough, Mr. Robert Eccles

1868 & 1872 - no sign of Robert on that street, or in the index



Shane
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Offline hotfix123

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Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 20 July 11 20:48 BST (UK) »
Many Thanks Shane.

That narrows my search down considerably..... 1863 - 1868.
One last question; Do you know if the online versions of The Freeman Journal & The Irish Times include the death notices or would it be better to go to the National Library. I realise the online versions are subscription but considering the amount of searching I might need to do to cover these 5 years it would be more convenient to do it online.

Thanks again

Phil
Murphy; Avoca, Wicklow & Dublin City. Harling; Dublin & Meath. Grimes; Dublin. Potter; Dublin. Eccles; Dublin. Hanlon; Swords, Dublin & Royal Artillery. Hood; Ballinderry, Antrim & Royal Artillery. Whitlow; Woolwich, London & Royal Artillery

Offline shanew147

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Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 20 July 11 20:51 BST (UK) »
Any of the online versions on the papers I've seen (Irish Times, Irish News Archive) include the full editions. You can usually browse the papers, by date and page as well as searching by keyword.



Shane
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Offline Pastmagic

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Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 23 July 11 16:13 BST (UK) »
There is a reference to a Robert Eccles warden giving evidence at a trial concerning a prisoner in" CORONER'S INQUEST".
Freeman's Journal , Thursday, March 4, 1852;
The inquest was held at the" Mountjoy Govt Convicts Prison."
He is a minor player in the incident.

PM

Offline Pastmagic

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Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 23 July 11 16:37 BST (UK) »
Also a reference to his pension in Accounts and papers of the House of Commons 1863
   
(books.google.ie
1863 - Full view)

Offline hotfix123

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Re: Mystery - Robert Eccles Dublin circa 1860's
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 23 July 11 17:31 BST (UK) »
Pastmagic you are a Wonder. Thanks a million for those posts.
Not only does it fill out the story of his life but I can now rule out him being the son of Cuthbert Eccles. The record of his pension gives his age at retirement in 1862 as 50 giving him a birth year of (circa)1812.
I now know he was a warder in Mountjoy and the 12yr 4mth service means he became a warder when Mountjoy first opened.
This info also means he was about 37 when he married Mary Smith in St. Pauls Arran Quay in February 1849. This seems quite old for a first marriage and also means he was 17 or 18 years older than Mary.
Brilliant. Thanks again
Phil
Murphy; Avoca, Wicklow & Dublin City. Harling; Dublin & Meath. Grimes; Dublin. Potter; Dublin. Eccles; Dublin. Hanlon; Swords, Dublin & Royal Artillery. Hood; Ballinderry, Antrim & Royal Artillery. Whitlow; Woolwich, London & Royal Artillery