Author Topic: Captain John Patterson Gatehouse  (Read 5220 times)

Offline Old82Galstonian

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Re: Captain John Patterson Gatehouse
« Reply #9 on: Monday 19 June 17 20:43 BST (UK) »
Thank you for your very informative posting. I fully agree with you that John Patterson's story is very intriguing - as you say 'lots to discover yet'!

1. Liverpool City Council having advised me that a Merchant Navy contact has informed them that most MN records held in Liverpool were destroyed in a fire in the 1970's, and, recommended contact with MCA in Cardiff via seafarersregistry@mcga.gov.uk. Unfortunately, the e-mail address was wrong and in checking this, I found this should read seafarers_registry@mcga.gov.uk, and, I now await their reply to my enquiry regarding John Patterson's death.

2. www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk under 'National Museums Liverpool', publish a 9 page Information Sheet No.43 'Tracing Seafaring Ancestors in the Merchant Navy', and - if you have not already done so - I suggest you may wish to go on-line and review the advice given.

3. Did you find John Patterson listed in the 1851 Census? (I realise he may have been at sea).

4. With regard to the Margaret Patterson (ms. Robertson)/John Fisher marriage, I have -

    (a) a copy of their Wedding Certificate for 26 July 1869, in Gatehouse in the Parish of Girthon.

    (b) a copy of the 1871 Census recording John and Margaret Fisher living in Gatehouse with 5
    Patterson step-children.

    (c) a copy of the 1818 Census recording John and Margaret Fisher living in Gatehouse with 5
    Fisher children plus one step-son, John Patterson aged 23. working as a Tailor.

    (d) a copy of the 1891 Census recording John and Margaret living in Gatehouse with 3 Fisher
    children, plus a grandson - who merited further investigation which eventually established a
    Patterson/Fisher connection other than Margaret Patterson m.s. Robertson marrying John Fisher!

    (e) I have advised you previously that with regard to John and Margaret Patterson's daughter -
    Margaret Ann Patterson - I have a copy of her 1889 Marriage Certificate and a copy of the 1901
    Census giving details of her family and location.

Should you like to have further details of anything under 4.(a) to (e), please let me know.

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Offline ltaid

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Re: Captain John Patterson Gatehouse
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 27 June 17 10:44 BST (UK) »
Thanks for information you sent last week. I would be really interested to hear more about the Patterson/Fisher connection you mention at 4 (d):
(d) a copy of the 1891 Census recording John and Margaret living in Gatehouse with 3 Fisher children, plus a grandson - who merited further investigation which eventually established a Patterson/Fisher connection other than Margaret Patterson m.s. Robertson marrying John Fisher!

I emailed Robert Hull in Liverpool more than a week ago. Was puzzled as to why there was no reply coming through and then discovered in my spam mail yesterday that the email had failed to send. Will try again.

In 1851 sixteen year old Margaret Patterson, was working for a family named Cunningham living at Bellevue, in  the middle of Twynholm village.

I have found out that John Patterson was indeed at sea at the time of the 1851 census which was taken on the 30th March of that year. He was a serving seaman on a ship called 'Kew' out of Liverpool between July 1850 and April 1851 and as 2nd Mate on same ship between April 1851 and Jan 1852. Previous to that he had worked on Hope, Bilston, Nith and again Kew as an apprentice seaman between June 1845 and April 1850, again all sailing out of Liverpool.
I have searched to no avail to find info on these ships (what cargo they carried to which places).

However John Patterson then worked from 1852 until the end of 1854 out of Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, Canada, first as a Mate and then Master of W B Dean, Robert Cottle and Asteria. Appears that the crews of these vessels were sailing brand new ships built on Prince Edward Island to their owners. One was sailed to Newfoundland, another to Aberdeen and the third to Southampton. Then, as I said previously, his career as Master Mariner is a mystery. 

I have been chipping away over the years and gradually little things have been coming to light but haven't yet found the pot of gold. Your posts on roots chat have rekindled my desire to keep digging and delving! Thank you for your interest.

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Offline seaweed

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Re: Captain John Patterson Gatehouse
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 27 June 17 13:32 BST (UK) »
If you have his DOB and his Masters certificate number 11506 (The Mercantile Navy list confirms there was a person named John Patterson with this Certificate number)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nOkNAAAAQAAJ&dq=%22mercantile%20navy%20list%22&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false Page 147

Therefore it would be a relatively simple task to find details of the ships he sailed on since obtaining his Mates certificate which should be recorded in Lloyd's Captains Register obtainable from London Metropolitan Archives  https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/london-metropolitan-archives/visitor-information/Pages/enquiry-service.aspx
There are also records at TNA Kew piece BT122/12 Recorded Service: 1851 - 1870 Certificate Numbers: 10000 - 11999 For a number of reasons. Best searched in person.
NMM Greenwich has some certificates together with Ancestry, some UK and Ireland, Masters and Mates Certificates, 1850-1927
I would try Ancestry first. Then LMA.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

Offline ltaid

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Re: Captain John Patterson Gatehouse
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 27 June 17 15:30 BST (UK) »
Thank you very much for the information you posted today. I have started lines of enquiry as  suggested. However I fear answers, if they are to be found, will take some time to arrive.

Offline Old82Galstonian

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Re: Captain John Patterson Gatehouse
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 01 July 17 22:40 BST (UK) »
Attn: Itaid - having noted good advice from 'Seaweed' is being followed up by you, I do hope you will soon find satisfactory detail of the circumstances of Captain John Patterson's death at sea.

On my part, I have downloaded a copy of a 16 page A4 "Maritime & Coastguard Agency - Information Leaflet/Historical Records" bearing a Ref. No. MSF 5323 REV 04/14", which is a detailed guide to the records held at the Registry of Shipping and Seamen (RSS), and, held elsewhere. If you do not already have a copy of this, I suggest you go on line and download one. For example, the advice given on page 3 is interesting in respect of Registers of Merchant Seamen's Services which are listed as held by the National Archives. Having now contacted the National Archives, I have learned that those Registers may now be accessed through the 'Find my Past' website; I shall give this a try!

I am finding existing sources of quoting Captain John Patterson's date of death rather confusing viz.,

a) the Memorial Stone in Girthon Cemetery shows date of death at sea as 4th April, 1867, aged 44 (ie. born 1823)

b) the 1841 Census gives his birth date as 1827 (age 14)

c) the England & Wales National Probate Calendar (1858-1966) gives his date of death as 4th April, 1868 - and place of death as Scotland? ?

I shall report on any positive result I may get from 'Find my Past'. Regarding the Fisher/Patterson connection, my information may be considered as personal/private/confidential and posting this for others to see should preferably not be done. I shall enquire if there is a way in which it may be transmitted direct to you - for your information only!

Thank you.

Offline ltaid

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Re: Captain John Patterson Gatehouse
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 02 July 17 09:23 BST (UK) »
Thank you for this further information. It is very much appreciated.
The answer to my enquiry at the National Archives may not be quick in coming as I suspect it will be placed in a 'queue'. Will pass on information as an when there is a development.
There is a way to send a personal message. That was the method through which I tried to make my first contact with you and then I also posted it publically.
Just found this advice through Googling, 'New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility'.
It must now be available to both of us.

Offline sarah

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Re: Captain John Patterson Gatehouse
« Reply #15 on: Monday 03 July 17 17:33 BST (UK) »
Hello ltaid and old85galstonian,

Yes now you have both made over 3 post you can use both access the pm function.

Regards

Sarah

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Offline ltaid

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Re: Captain John Patterson Gatehouse
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 04 July 17 11:52 BST (UK) »
Thank you Sarah.

Offline Old82Galstonian

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Re: Captain John Patterson Gatehouse
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 04 July 17 13:13 BST (UK) »
attn: Itaid
Advice provided in the Maritime & Coastguard Agency's Information leaflet, suggested -

1. the General Register Office might supply a Death Certificate

2. National Archives might provide -
    (a) Lloyds Captains Register - under BT139
    (b) 'Seaman's Pouch' - on-line - giving details under BT372
    (c) search Index of Apprentices at BT150
    (d) Register of Wages & Effects of Deceased Seamen at BT153 (indexed at BT154)

I have not yet looked into item 1, and results for item 2 were -

(a) by entering 'Captain' or 'John' or 'Patterson' or 'Ticket No.11506'. for the period 1800 to 1899, no results were found!

(b) BT372 only covers the period 1913 to 1972

(c) BT150 (Apprentice Names K to Z cannot be searched on-line but they will do a page check for 8.40 !! to determine if it is possible to make a copy - subject to a further fee!

(d) National Archives referred me to 'Find my Past' where I commenced a search for John Patterson b. 1827 and died ca. 1867 or 1868. and, after a time I was provided with a list of 14 possibles, none of whom I could find had positive connection with our Captain John Patterson! Three 'Pattersons' were listed- the others were all variations of that surname, and, of those three one forename was Jn and the others were Jno. Of the fourteen, only one birth-date was shown viz., 1827 but for a John Peterson who died in 1865. No locations were listed.

I do hope you may meet with more success! I shall for now 'rest on my oars'!