Author Topic: A bit of a puzzle - illegitimate in the 1880s  (Read 4855 times)

Offline Hazel17

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A bit of a puzzle - illegitimate in the 1880s
« on: Tuesday 09 August 11 00:17 BST (UK) »
My husband's great-grandmother was married as Laura Radford but for 3 out of 4 of her children gave the maiden name Gell on birth certificates.

She used the surname Gell in 1901 and 1911 when living as a servant. In 1891 she used the surname Radford when she was living with her aunt and uncle Hannah and John Gell. She was born 1887 Wirksworth. There is a baptism for Laura Radford to Miriam Radford single woman in Wirksworth 1887. Miriam and Hannah were sisters. Miriam marries in 1890 in Derby and stays in Derby the rest of her life so I surmised that John and Hannah took Laura in but Laura often used the surname Gell as she was brought up in the Gell household . So far so good but then an Ernest kept reappearing in the Gell household.

In John and Hannah Gell's household in 1891 they have nephew Ernest Steeples born Mickleover 1884 (the Radfords were a Mickleover family - Miriam and Hannah were born there). Ernest Steeples disappears from records except for a baptism in 1885 in Wirksworth to a John and Miriam Steeples of Ashover. In 1901 living with the Gells is Ernest Radford (same birth details as Steeples - there is a birth reg right year right place for him) but no other records for him. In 1911 Ernest Gell son of John now appears born in Mickleover. There is a possible marriage for Ernest Radford.

I can’t see a John Steeples/Miriam marriage. Could Miriam Radford have lived with John, given birth to Ernest in Mickleover as Radford as she was unmarried, christened him in Wirksworth as Steeples with John had Laura with John but the time it came to Laura's baptism John had disappeared. Or am I just trying make the facts fit? Can anyone help explain Ernest Steeples/Radford/Gell?

John and Hannah claim to have had 9 children in 1911 and lost 1. I have 8 children for them and I account for 7 in 1911. I can’t see a marriage or death or census entry for Elizabeth born 1891 Wirksworth (the one I can't account for). I can’t find a ninth child for them. Did they count Ernest as the ninth? (Mind you they didn’t fill the sheet in too well as the added a daughter who was elsewhere from home and crossed her out and added 11 years to their marriage).

If you've have got to the bottom of this and are not confused well done  :D and I would appreciate any thoughts or help on this.
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Online CaroleW

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Re: A bit of a puzzle
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 09 August 11 00:42 BST (UK) »
There are 2 births in Burton on Trent for an Ernest Radford but one has a middle name of William (1883) and the other is 1884 which is probably the likeliest

No birth reg for an Ernest Steeples

It's more than likely that the birth cert will only show Miriam's name but is any occupation shown for John Steeples on the baptismal record for Ernest?

Miriam was b 1865 and there are a few 1881 entries in Derbyshire for a John Steeple/s in the same age range

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Offline Hazel17

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Re: A bit of a puzzle
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 09 August 11 10:34 BST (UK) »
Yes it says labourer.

I thought that about the birth certs which is why I haven't bought them.

I don't think I have quite enough evidence to assume that John is also Laura's father.
Rolph/Bird/Hilliard Writtle & Highwood Essex
Lister/Fitch/Kitteridge/Coote  Ashdon Essex
Coote Castle Camps Essex
Jones Kirby le Soken Essex
Kinch London/Swanbourne Bucks/Oxon
Burt Winfrith Newburgh, Dorset
Smith/Bant  Birmingham
Weatherill London/York
Hill/Habershon Sheffield
Roberts - London
Stringer - Leicester
Frost Castleton Derbys
Hall Wirksworth Derby
Allcock/Parkes Calton, Staffs
Meisenheimer Germany
Crossley/Adams Hidcote, Gloucs
R(o)ycroft Brown Malpas
Pratley BurfordOx

Offline Hazel17

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Re: A bit of a puzzle
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 09 August 11 14:01 BST (UK) »
Update: I have found Elizabeth Gell in 1911 so I am more puzzled than ever as to which child died as I have 8 children for Hannah and John and 8 in 1911. I think I am going to have to match up all the Wirksworth births/deaths of infant Gells as I assume it is a child that lived between censuses.
Rolph/Bird/Hilliard Writtle & Highwood Essex
Lister/Fitch/Kitteridge/Coote  Ashdon Essex
Coote Castle Camps Essex
Jones Kirby le Soken Essex
Kinch London/Swanbourne Bucks/Oxon
Burt Winfrith Newburgh, Dorset
Smith/Bant  Birmingham
Weatherill London/York
Hill/Habershon Sheffield
Roberts - London
Stringer - Leicester
Frost Castleton Derbys
Hall Wirksworth Derby
Allcock/Parkes Calton, Staffs
Meisenheimer Germany
Crossley/Adams Hidcote, Gloucs
R(o)ycroft Brown Malpas
Pratley BurfordOx


Offline maidmarianoops

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Re: A bit of a puzzle - illegitimate in the 1880s
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 17 August 11 12:31 BST (UK) »
notts/derbys clark
      "        "      stenson
        "       "    nicholson
       "     "        jarvis
                         castledine
    rhodes

 
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Hazel17

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Re: A bit of a puzzle - illegitimate in the 1880s
« Reply #5 on: Monday 09 April 12 21:55 BST (UK) »
An update if any one is interested: I have found a bastardy bond for 1887 - Miriam Radford Walter Waywell. Looks like I can give Laura a father now.  :)
Rolph/Bird/Hilliard Writtle & Highwood Essex
Lister/Fitch/Kitteridge/Coote  Ashdon Essex
Coote Castle Camps Essex
Jones Kirby le Soken Essex
Kinch London/Swanbourne Bucks/Oxon
Burt Winfrith Newburgh, Dorset
Smith/Bant  Birmingham
Weatherill London/York
Hill/Habershon Sheffield
Roberts - London
Stringer - Leicester
Frost Castleton Derbys
Hall Wirksworth Derby
Allcock/Parkes Calton, Staffs
Meisenheimer Germany
Crossley/Adams Hidcote, Gloucs
R(o)ycroft Brown Malpas
Pratley BurfordOx

Offline copperbeech5

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Re: A bit of a puzzle - illegitimate in the 1880s
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 10 April 12 18:31 BST (UK) »
Well done!  What a muddle...


Best wishes,
Copperbeech5
Hutchinson - Nottingham.
Rowland - Nottingham.
Parkin - Co Durham/Nottingham.
Gardiner/Gardner/Gardener - Co Durham.
Drake - Derbyshire/Lincolnshire/Sussex/London?
Leighton - Derbyshire.

Offline Hazel17

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Re: A bit of a puzzle - illegitimate in the 1880s
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 10 April 12 18:54 BST (UK) »
And now just about unmuddled I think!  :)
Rolph/Bird/Hilliard Writtle & Highwood Essex
Lister/Fitch/Kitteridge/Coote  Ashdon Essex
Coote Castle Camps Essex
Jones Kirby le Soken Essex
Kinch London/Swanbourne Bucks/Oxon
Burt Winfrith Newburgh, Dorset
Smith/Bant  Birmingham
Weatherill London/York
Hill/Habershon Sheffield
Roberts - London
Stringer - Leicester
Frost Castleton Derbys
Hall Wirksworth Derby
Allcock/Parkes Calton, Staffs
Meisenheimer Germany
Crossley/Adams Hidcote, Gloucs
R(o)ycroft Brown Malpas
Pratley BurfordOx