emily brown born 1877 in peterstow, ross-on-wye, herefordshire

[mollymandysb]

Hi Cat

the last entry was prob the right one, john homes and maria stevenson, that is the name they gave me.  i will be seeing both of them tomorrow afternoon - lovely home made cake and a cup of tea.

one last thing do you know where the marriage was then i can try and follow it through.

i am on Genes Reunited and ancestry at mo.  my findmypast has just run out, i sometimes think you need to be on every site going - but that is very costly.

thanks


steph

[mollymandysb]

Hi Cat

have just checked marriage ref and they were married and born in suffolk. i can find them in llangaron in 1861 living at tower hil, with son john, daughters emma and jane all born in llangaron.  this seems to be the right family.

i cant find them again in 1871 or 1881.  my neighbour and her cousin seemed to think they were welsh and that they are buried in llangollen (I wonder if they mean llangaron).

thanks for your help

steph

[mollymandysb]

Hi Cat

have found them in 1851 john was born in 1806 in sibton suffok, with maria being born 1813, but i think that should read 1823 in mottenham, suffolk, they are living in llangaron herefordshire.

in 1871 maria is on her own with lodgers, so whether john has died i dont know, the emily holmes i am looking for was born in 1877, so whether she was illegitimate i dont know
but maria would have been 58, so dont know whether it was possible (it is today i know). 

will have to ask the neighbours, athough i do remember their being a son called douglas and have not found him on any of the census forms, so might be the wrong family i have been following.

steph

[CatOne]

Theres a possible death for a John Holmes in 1865 Ross, Herefordshire.

I think, as Emma is clearly the daughter of John and Maria (nee Stevenson) and she has a daughter in 1891 census with her of the correct age/birthplace and first name, Emily, that she is likely to be the illegitimate daughter of Emma, probably conceived while she was working in service and "fostered" by the Wilsons until Emma married Henry Price and could bring her daughter to live with them. Maybe she was even led to believe Emma was her sister rather than her mother to avoid the stigma of being illegitimate. The birth certificate is the only thing I can think would confirm who her mother is, unless someone can find a baptism record 

[CatOne]

Theres a marriage for a Maria Holmes in December quarter 1873 to a John Beaven or Thomas Powell, and a death for a Maria Beaven in March quarter 1880 Ross

[mollymandysb]

Hi

yes, i think emma is the mother, as she was in service in monmouth for sometime.

i doubt if maria would have been the mother because she was well over 50, if she was born in 1822/3 she would have been 55 in 1877.  one of the census puts her down as being born in 1813 but i think that is a mistake.  john was born in 1806/11 so was quite a bit older than her. 

i am seeing my neighbours tomorrow and will send for birth cert if that s what they want.  sometimes people want to believe in what they do and not take what is put in front of them as gospell.  i spoke to my neightbour briefly tonight and she was insistent on john and maria being buried in llangollen, but i think its llangaron which is not as well known as the other.

thanks for all your help.  if they do send for the cert i will let you know the outcome.

molly

[mollymandysb]

Hi Cat 1

just to let you know how my meeting with my neighbour and her elderly cousin.

well my neighbour was quite excited waiting to tell her cousin that grannie was illegitimate, 'she wont like that, she said'  anyway over a cup of tea and a slice of cake, she told her.  the cousin pursed her lips and i waited for the onslought.  i was gobsmacked when she said ' yes, i know all about it, grannie told me and told me never to tell anyone that she was emmas daughter and that they changed hr name to price, but she changed it back again'.

did that take the wind out of everone!!!!,  the argument then got under way, why did you not tell me when i asked you, grannie said not to.  grannie died in 1957.

makes you wonder what some of these older people know but wont tell.

i left them by saying it does not really matter now.

I felt as if i had tried to help in finding her fam history, as she asked, but to ony stirr up things with her cousin.

thanks for all your help.

steph

[CatOne]

  Isn't it annoying when you find something out only to have the wind taken out your sails by them saying "oh yes I knew that" !! Sometimes the elder generation seem to like to keep family secrets to themselves, they don't seem to realise that things that mattered back then, don't matter now and everyone would only look out of interest not a sense of scandal anymore.

Thanks for the update anyway, its always interesting to know the outcome 

Regards
Cat

[mollymandysb]

well i left the biddies (I am 63 myself so i think i should be able to get away with it) to their bickering.

i have researched her dad's side of the family and i dont think they liked the outcome to that.

they are convinced that there was money involved but i cant find any link except the surname was the same. also they are convinced the grand mother was a concert pianist who played before the king george v at buckingham palace, when i sent for the death cert, it says her son registerd the death at an age when they said she was dead and he had put down that her occupation was a dressmaker, also he put down that his dad was a plumber, but the cousin said i dont think that s right he was into money.  in fact, he died whilst playing rugby.  nothing in the archives to suggest that so he was not a professional.  atho they said a better class of person played rugby instead of football.

well i will leave them with their memories.

thanks again

steph