Author Topic: "Lord Delaval" built Berwick-upon-Tweed  (Read 9063 times)

Offline MAPS

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"Lord Delaval" built Berwick-upon-Tweed
« on: Friday 19 August 11 12:53 BST (UK) »
Hi there,
Can anyone give me any information at all about the immigrant ship "Lord Delaval"which was built in Berwick-upon-Tweed in 1852 and sailed on the 13th Sept. 1852, for London and then on to Port Phillip [Melbourne], Australia where it arrived on the 27th Feb. 1853.
I am interested in the passengers by the name of Hill.
I do have an arrival list of passengers but I do not know where the passengers embarked. Ideally I'd like to know if the Hill family embarked in London or not.
There were supposedly 50 passengers who came from Berwick-upon-Tweed. There were also Scottish passengers.

I would be very grateful for any information and also advice.

MAPS
Mainland [Orkney/Middlesex], Hill [London/Bristol], Adamson [Fife], Nicholson [Fifi], Tippett [Cornwall/Devon],
Heays [Tasmania/England], Reid [England/Scotland], Halcrow, Williams and many others.

Offline Ruskie

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Re: "Lord Delaval" built Berwick-upon-Tweed
« Reply #1 on: Friday 19 August 11 13:17 BST (UK) »
Does the arrival list show where the passengers came from (county/country)? I'm not sure if there is such a thing as lists of where each passenger embarked. The closest I've seen is port of departure. These details plus name of Captain, Dates of Departure etc should be noted on the ships lists upon arrival.   ;)


Offline MAPS

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Re: "Lord Delaval" built Berwick-upon-Tweed
« Reply #2 on: Friday 19 August 11 14:45 BST (UK) »
I have a copy that was taken from a micro-fiche and not a very good one at that. A researcher in Australia found it for me.
It gives the following:
Ship's name/ Master's name/ tons per Register etc./ Where Berthed.
Signature of the Master.

Names and descriptions of Passengers.
Ports of Embarkation/ Names of Passengers/ Adults/Children/infants/Profession etc/ State whether Eng. Scots or Irish./Port at which Passengers have contracted to land.

On the first page in the first column is written LONDON but this is the only place it's been written in. I think the person filling in the form assumed they all came from London.  In the last column is written Port Phillip.
No county has been given only whether the passenger is Eng. or Scot.  I thought Berwick-upon Tweed was in England.
I did find an article in an Australian newspaper that mentions that Under the heading of "Select Christian Emigration" several ships were announced to leave London in October and November [1852], for Australia etc etc.... .The "Blackheath"was to sail on the 18th Oct., the " Lord Delaval"  on 25th Oct.

Any ideas of where else I could look ?

MAPS 
Mainland [Orkney/Middlesex], Hill [London/Bristol], Adamson [Fife], Nicholson [Fifi], Tippett [Cornwall/Devon],
Heays [Tasmania/England], Reid [England/Scotland], Halcrow, Williams and many others.

Offline Ruskie

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Re: "Lord Delaval" built Berwick-upon-Tweed
« Reply #3 on: Friday 19 August 11 15:06 BST (UK) »
I think that means all passengers embarked in London rather than it being their place of origin ie they would have travelled there from various places to board the ship. The information you were given is typical for an immigration record - some give a little more, some less. There may be no further information recorded. The officials were more interested in who was coming in rather than who was departin,g so you will find more detail on arrival than departure.

Yes, I think Berwick upon Tweed is in Northumberland (England.) Do you think your Hill family originated there?

Are you attempting to identify your Hill family? Have you looked at bmd records in Australia to see if you can locate them? Hill is a common name so I imagine it will be difficult to pin them down unless they have unusual forenames.

I'm still not sure what speicifically you are looking for. People usually start looking for immigrations if a family cannot be found on the census. Do you have your Hills in the 41 and 51 censuses?



Offline MAPS

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Re: "Lord Delaval" built Berwick-upon-Tweed
« Reply #4 on: Friday 19 August 11 21:00 BST (UK) »
Hi Ruskie,
I'd better explain my tactics in trying to find out more about the "Lord Delaval" and it's passengers.
My GG Grandfather was born in England but am not sure where. London or Bristol. I have no birth date or parents names for him. He was born in 1813 and this was calculated from his death reg. entry and from the census.
He and his family were in both the 1841 and 1851 London Censuses. He gave London as his birth place in 1841 and Bristol in the 1851 Census.
He was definately in New Zealand in 1855 but I've no idea how he got there. His son John was also there with him. His wife and daughter didn't arrive in New Zealand until 1858.  There are stories that he came to NZ from Australia.
The John Hill aged 39, and John Hill junior aged 12, on the "Lord Delaval"have the correct ages and John senior's occupation wasShoe/Bootmaker which also fits. The 3rd Hill passenger was a Charles Hill also given as son aged 11. This doesn't match but he could have been a relation ??
What I'm trying to do is find out exactly where these three embarked. If they embarked in Berwick then they cannot be my ancestors. If they got on in London then there still may be a chance.
I was also going to attempt to find anybody in Aus. who had ancestors that sailed on the same ship using Rootschat but thought I'd start first in Northumberland seeing as that's where the story began and where the Ship left from.

I hope that makes everything clearer for you.

MAPS
Mainland [Orkney/Middlesex], Hill [London/Bristol], Adamson [Fife], Nicholson [Fifi], Tippett [Cornwall/Devon],
Heays [Tasmania/England], Reid [England/Scotland], Halcrow, Williams and many others.

Offline MAPS

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Re: "Lord Delaval" built Berwick-upon-Tweed
« Reply #5 on: Friday 19 August 11 21:02 BST (UK) »
Sorry Ruskie I forgot to give you this Genuki page which gives the passenger list.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/Indexes/PassengerLists/LordDelaval.html

MAPS
Mainland [Orkney/Middlesex], Hill [London/Bristol], Adamson [Fife], Nicholson [Fifi], Tippett [Cornwall/Devon],
Heays [Tasmania/England], Reid [England/Scotland], Halcrow, Williams and many others.

Offline Ruskie

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Re: "Lord Delaval" built Berwick-upon-Tweed
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 20 August 11 07:59 BST (UK) »
Hi MAPS - that makes it all a lot clearer, thank you.  :)

Some initial thoughts:

You mention the death reg entry, but do you have John's NZ death certificate? Might it name his parents or place of origin as an Australian d/c does? Have you checked obituaries in case there is mention of where he was from?

Have you searched Australia to see if there are any John Hills or Charles Hills who remained there and married or died? You may need help from the Australian board.

I would say that there is a very good chance that these Hills are yours and the same Hills that ended up in NZ. The occupation is right, the names and ages are right, the fact that they travelled without wife and daughter who later came to NZ all fits in well. How sure are you that the Charles Hill aged 12 who travelled on the Lord Delaval is not son of John? Did he also go to NZ? If not yours he could well have been a nephew or other relative, or perhaps it was a co-incidence and he was no relation.

I may be wrong but I think you may a better response to this on either the Australia or NZ boards.  :-\ I'm not sure how much luck you will have trying to find them embarking in the UK ... Maybe you should post the question on the NZ board to see if anyone can locate their arrival there? (I can't help with NZ immigration) I know there was quite a lot of too-ing and fro-ing from Australia to NZ and vice versa.

One last thought - in the 1841 census the only clue to origin is whether or not the person was born in the county. Was John living in the City of London in 1841? (or Middlesex?  ;)

fF you go ahead and post about your Hills on the Australia or NZ board, provide a link to this post to give some background to the story.  ;)

I will let you know if I come up with any other ideas.

Offline Ruskie

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Re: "Lord Delaval" built Berwick-upon-Tweed
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 20 August 11 08:11 BST (UK) »
Can you provide the references to the family in the 1841 and 1851 censuses? (I had a quick look for them in 1851 without success) ...

Do you know who John snr married and do you have their marriage certificate (if post 1837)?

Offline Michael Dixon

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Re: "Lord Delaval" built Berwick-upon-Tweed
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 20 August 11 10:21 BST (UK) »
Berwick upon Tweed is at the moment within the English county of Northumberland.

It is debatable whether it was regarded as within England in the 1850s.

After frequently switching between England and Scotland up to 1482, it was regarded as been in England since then.

However in the C19th some proclamations listed Berwick as separate from both Scotland and England.

The most widely known example was the British declaration of war ( with allies France and Turkey) against Russia ( the " Crimean War" ) in 1853. Supposedly signed by " Victoria, Queen of Great Britain, Ireland and Berwick upon Tweed"

Michael
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Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
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