Author Topic: Albert Idris Davies and Emma Gwynne  (Read 4281 times)

Offline jwayborg

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Albert Idris Davies and Emma Gwynne
« on: Friday 19 August 11 15:42 BST (UK) »
Hi all,  I have drawn a complete blank on leads for my grandfather and grandmother on my fathers side. 
They lived at 12 Cross Street, Gilfach, Bargoed. He was born around 1895 and worked as a hostler in the mine.

I know even less about Emma except that she may have come from the Camarthan/Swansea area.

They had 6 children David Fredrick, Harry Gwynne, Idris George, Elizabeth, Celia and Kenneth Raymond, my father.  Elizabeth an Celia died young. Harry was found in the Rhymney river after a suspected mugging.  Any information would be apreciated so I can finally kick start my dads side of the family.

Thanks in advance... Jwayborg

Davies, Short, Gwynne, Jones.

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Offline osprey

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Re: Albert Idris Davies and Emma Gwynne
« Reply #1 on: Friday 19 August 11 16:10 BST (UK) »
do you have their marriage cert which should give names of fathers & their occupations?

Albert I Davies dec qtr 1916 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 1377 to Emma Gwyn
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

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Offline osprey

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Re: Albert Idris Davies and Emma Gwynne
« Reply #2 on: Friday 19 August 11 16:19 BST (UK) »
there's a likely birth registration for Albert

Albert Idris Davies march qtr 1896 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 663

possibly this family
19 Greenfield, Bargoed RG13/5022 folio 148 pg 42
Howell Davies head mar 51 coal hewer b. Breconshire, Talgarth
Margaret wife 46 b. Talgarth
John son 25 coal hewer
Cecilia dau 22
George son 20 coal hewer
Phoebe dau 18
Walter R dau 16 coal hewer
Edgar son 11
Gwen M dau 9
Albert son 5
all children born Bargoed

but there is at least one other Albert Davies in the area. Have you looked for the family on the 1911 census?
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Albert Idris Davies and Emma Gwynne
« Reply #3 on: Friday 19 August 11 16:36 BST (UK) »
Using this site for the 1911

http://www.1911census.co.uk/

& the free index on the advanced search, there is only one Albert Idris Davies of the right age. Once you're sure of the registration district, you can search on surname in that registration district with Albert Idris in 'other members of household' box, to find out who he was living with. Pretty sure the family I've found in 1901 is the correct one.

How about this Emma in 1901?

6 Charles St, Gelligaer RG13/5021 folio 155 pg 45
David Gwynne head mar 49 coal hewer b. Mon, Abersychan
Elizabeth wife 47 b. Glos, Thornbury
Harry son 21 coal hewer b. Mon, Pontypool
Thomas son 15 coal hewer b. Mon, Blaenavon
George H son 12 b Blaenavon
Clare dau 10 b. Blaenavon
G May dau 6 b. Blaenavon
Emma dau 5 b. Brithdir

birth reg
Emma Gwynne june qtr 1896 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 678
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Dannemois

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Re: Albert Idris Davies and Emma Gwynne
« Reply #4 on: Friday 19 August 11 18:51 BST (UK) »
Hi Osprey
Excuse me for butting in but just to say the address of 6 Charles Street, Gelligaer is actually in the village of Brithdir, two doors from where I lived at number 4.  It can get confusing for Brithdir was the name of one of the Districts that made up Gelligaer Parish.  Then it was referred to as Brithdir Hamlet and the village name that of George Inn which was renamed Brithdir in 1891.

Hope this little bit of knowledge will help.

Regards, Roy
anything and everything to do with the village of Brithdir, near New Tredegar in Gwent.

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Offline osprey

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Re: Albert Idris Davies and Emma Gwynne
« Reply #5 on: Friday 19 August 11 20:05 BST (UK) »
the less than helpful enumerator had left the village or hamlet box empty, so thanks for that, Roy. Just waiting for the poster to say something.

 ;)
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline jwayborg

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Re: Albert Idris Davies and Emma Gwynne
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 20 August 11 11:50 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your reply Osprey,   You have given me some valuable leads.
The biggest problem is that dad was the pampered baby of the family and cannot remember anything about his family.  He didn't find out about his sisters until he went to bury his brother and found the grave in Brithdir was full. He can't remember any details and has no documents either.

I am new to genealogy and am a little frustrated by the fact that you can find a match but still not be sure that it is the right person.  Dad is unsure if he was Idris Albert  OR Albert Idris. The grave in Brithdir cemetery does not have a headstone but dad does know the plot.  Also I am not familiar with which documents will give the most helpful information.

Mams family was soooo easy because there were lots of them and the people alive have better memories than my dad.

I will follow up and check with my dad the info you have provided and come back..  Thanks again..
Davies, Short, Gwynne, Jones.

Offline jwayborg

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Re: Albert Idris Davies and Emma Gwynne
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 20 August 11 20:01 BST (UK) »
I can't believe that after all the time I have spent trying to locate my dads family that you cracked it so quickly.  I must be looking in the wrong places. I have checked with my dad and he can remember an Edgar and a Walter.  Thanks so much, my dad is bouncing up and down.

He remembers that he may still have family in Brithdir and is heading over there tomorrow to try and track them down. I have never seen him so excited :D.  The information provided by Roy was also valuable 6, Charles Street also rang a bell.

Roy, do remember a Tommy Green, Dad said he was killed in an accident on the tip, he had a sister Pam. My dads nickname was Tinker and he lived in Gilfach and later in the Coed Cae.

My mam was a 'Short' from George St, New Tredegar.  My Grandfather was an inspector on the west mon buses. Harry Short.

Thanks for the info so far.. Mel
Davies, Short, Gwynne, Jones.

Offline osprey

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Re: Albert Idris Davies and Emma Gwynne
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 21 August 11 21:30 BST (UK) »
this post on the beginners' board may be of use.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,480454.0.html

When you say that you find a match but can't be sure it's the right person, it depends on the surname you're researching. If you're doing Davies, there's a fair chance that there's more than one person with the same forename as well in the same area in Wales. Having a less than common first name like Idris helps. Being called Thomas or William doesn't.

As for documents, the birth cert of a child should provide father's name ( & occupation) & mother's maiden so that you can find their marriage. A marriage cert should provide names & occupations of both fathers so you can get a further generation back Using certs in conjunction with the census should get you back to 1837 & the start of civl registration. Before that, you're reliant on parish records & with common Welsh surnames, that can be a challenge, especially if you have non-conformists in the family.

 :D 
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb