Author Topic: William Speer b. 1717 and son William b abt 1765  (Read 4469 times)

Offline ThamesDitton

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William Speer b. 1717 and son William b abt 1765
« on: Monday 22 August 11 19:25 BST (UK) »
Another local history story.

William Speer believed born 1717 died 1805 (Gentleman's magazine) described as a senior clerk in the Treasury. Owned property in Fulham/Hammersmith. Married Katherine nee Wilson in 1759.  She inherited property at Prospect Place, Westminster (later Old Queen St).  That became their London home.  She died 1780 & is buried at Thames Ditton.  On the strength of his Prospect Park property he voted (Tory) in Westminster in St Margaret, estminster, and St John the Evangelist

In 1778 he began acquiring land in Thames Ditton, initially in Weston Green in the NW corner of the parish.  There's a large amount of material at Surrey History Centre of which I'm aware.

For William Speer b. abt 1717
Q1: detailed dpob / dpod for William?

Q2: any fuller details on him esp. his work at the Treasury?


In about 1765 William x Katheriine had a son, also William.  I know that they had at least three daughters, the third of which was Frances died 1861. 
Q3: dates for offspring of William Speer x Katherine?

Q4: definitive address
for the property they lived in as their country home in Weston Greem, Thames Ditton? (Not the many farms and other houses William bought to let out). Its not totally clear when William the younger b abt 1760 died: ancestry records give buried Thames Ditton St Nicholas 19 April 1844 in his 79th year curate Henry S Pollard, but Surrey History Centre's Speer papers give May 1846 as the date of his decease in connection with the will, and his descendant in the 1960s in private correspondence with a local historian gave 1845).   I am particularly interested in William the younger.  He bought the Lordship of the Manor of Weston from the Crown Estate in 1801 (I have photos of the full deeds) and ruthlessly added to the Speer land portfolio here and in Esher and Epsom, winding up with 660 acres - almost a quarter - of the parish of Thames Ditton.  His descendants maintain that he sired 19 children but many died in childhood.  I don't yet have the name of his wife nor the marriage details, but I know that she died before 1841.  His eldest surviving son was Wilfred b. 1800, on whom I have some detail (studied at Trinity Cambridge, ordained around 1831, he was suspended from his position as incumbent of Thames Ditton for persistent drunkenness).  Another son was Capt Wilhelm Speer of the 71st Highlanders died 1857.  Daughters included Maria and Cecilia or Cecelia.  Cecilia married Hannibal Sandys 05/12/1825

William the younger also gave his town address as Park Prospect Westminster (and also voted Tory), while his address in Weston Green was probably either (or both of)  Weston Grove or Weston Grange.  His occupation (if other than landowner and property speculator) is unclear.

for William Speer b. abt 1765:
Q5:  definitive dpob / dod?
Q6: marriage and spouse?
Q7: occupation ? (there may be clues in parliamentary records of the secret vote, where he is mentioned in passing: I wonder if he followed his father into the Treasury?).  For one year he was Sherriff of Surrey.
Q8: definitive list of children dob/dod?


Anything this wonderful forum can hunt down would be really useful.  Thanks.

Offline dawnsh

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Re: William Speer b. 1717 and son William b 1860
« Reply #1 on: Monday 22 August 11 19:39 BST (UK) »
Have you obtained a copy of this will from the National Archives?

Will of William Speer of Thames Ditton , Surrey, Prerogative Court of Canterbury
Date    04 June 1844
Catalogue reference    PROB 11/2000

Dawn
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea

Offline dawnsh

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Re: William Speer b. 1717 and son William b 1860
« Reply #2 on: Monday 22 August 11 19:45 BST (UK) »
There's a William Speer, bachelor, late of Thames Ditton who died 10 January 1834 at Park Prospect St Margarets. He didn't leave a will but letters of administration were granted to Wilfred Dakin Speer, brother and next of kin, 12 June 1866.

Dawn
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea

Offline ThamesDitton

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Re: William Speer b. 1717 and son William b 1760
« Reply #3 on: Monday 22 August 11 21:08 BST (UK) »
There's a William Speer, bachelor, late of Thames Ditton who died 10 January 1834 at Park Prospect St Margarets. He didn't leave a will but letters of administration were granted to Wilfred Dakin Speer, brother and next of kin, 12 June 1866.

Dawn
Interesting.  Wilfred Dakin Speer is the son of Rev Wilfred Speer, who in turn is the son of William Speer the younger  b. abt 1765 (oops - I've just noticed I put 1860 at one point in the first post - I'll correct, sorry).  So this William if the brother of Wilfred Dakin Speer would be the second son of Rev Wilfred x Sarah, his wife.  However, he is supposed to have been buried at Brookwood cemetery Woking in 1868 according to the gravestone of Rev Wilfred and some other family members.  And it doesn't look quite right.

Census 1851 in TD gives
Wilfred Speer Incumbent
Sarah wife aged 45
Wilfred son age 4  // this doesn't look quite right either!
Maria Knight and Ann Naldrett, servants

So William d. 1834 is an odd one.

Capt Wilfred Dakin Speer was shot & killed 'accidentally' by a US guard on board the paddle steamer Octavia up the Missouri on 8 June 1867.  The US military papers on that incident are available in our library.


Offline ThamesDitton

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Re: William Speer b. 1717 and son William b 1760
« Reply #4 on: Monday 22 August 11 21:27 BST (UK) »
Got the first name of William Speer the younger's wife: Mary (from index of documents in Surrey History Centre ref 3400/3/3-4  Unit Date 8 Apr 1831.  NO further details of her yet.

I'm off to the SHC tomorrow and I think there are details of William Speer's a/m will in the Speer papers held there.

Offline jennifer c

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Re: William Speer b. 1717 and son William b abt 1865
« Reply #5 on: Monday 22 August 11 23:36 BST (UK) »
1851 says Wilfred is 17 not 4.

Jennifer
Stevens /Godfrey /Rudgley /Claridge/ Gipson /George /Bliss
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Offline jennifer c

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Re: William Speer b. 1717 and son William b abt 1865
« Reply #6 on: Monday 22 August 11 23:52 BST (UK) »
Wilfred Dakin Speer will was proved firstly by Edward Frederick Sandys 13 The Grove Boltons West Brompton Middx 20/9/1867

Secondly 5/11/1867 by Courtanay Forbes Terry esq. of Esher Lt.60th Rifles.

Jennifer
Stevens /Godfrey /Rudgley /Claridge/ Gipson /George /Bliss
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jennifer c

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Re: William Speer b. 1717 and son William b abt 1865
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 23 August 11 00:08 BST (UK) »
William Speer born 13/10/1835 bapt. 12/11/1835 at TD
Parents Wilfred & Sarah Incumbent TD

1861 census West End Lodge TD
Sarah Speer wid. 50 Landed Prop. born London
William 25 Fund holder TD

Jennifer
Stevens /Godfrey /Rudgley /Claridge/ Gipson /George /Bliss
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jennifer c

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Re: William Speer b. 1717 and son William b abt 1865
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 23 August 11 00:25 BST (UK) »
Wilhelm Speer 46 Late Capt. 71st Reg & Fund holder born NK

1851 census London Road Bexley Kent

Died Dartford Kent 1857

P.O.Directory 1851 Kent Wilhelm Speer West Cottage Kent.

Jennifer
Stevens /Godfrey /Rudgley /Claridge/ Gipson /George /Bliss
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk