# 32 Reply summary of family = HART P J & Corcoran M NSW Australia

[majm]

Some questions

1. How do you know Patrick and Margaret were in their 70s in 1903 please

When Hart married OWEN at Albury on that mc:
2. what was Patrick's occupation   and
3. what was Mary Ellen's age and
4.  were any of the parents noted as deceased ...

Cheers  JM

Hello John

Thanks for looking !!

It is a possibility but not sure at the moment as they would be in their 70`s at that time.

Regards

Jamison

[majm]

More thoughts ...

The 1856 bc will give you info about her parents including where and when they had married and any older siblings for the daughter whose birth was being registered and the then address for the family ...... VIC certs are reknown for the depth of info provided ... perhaps the best records in the world for family tree researching.  Alison, Sue and Merlin have checked and confirmed the VIC ref number for you.

So with that bc you should be able to establish a fair bit of detail about the couple, Patrick James Hart and Margaret Corcoran ..

Cheers  JM

[majm]

Hi

The 1875 mc at Albury NSW .... you have Patrick and Margaret's names from your follow up after one of my posts on your Hatcher thread ... NSWBDM in 1875 were not yet authorised to obtain the full details for marriages BUT the clergy definitely recorded not just the parents names ..... As Miss Hart maried 18 Jan 1875 (per that Hatcher thread) she would have only been 13 if born 1861 .... to marry without consent  she needed to be 21.  The clergy records would note who gave consent .   Those same Church records that give you Patrick and Margaret names also give the occupation for him and names/details of groom's  parents as well of ages /occupations of bride and groom EVEN when NSW BDM cert has not been reconciled with the Church record ..

Cheers JM

[majm]

Ellen Mary or Mary Ellen may have had a sister called Elizabeth !!

Hi Jamison,

Would this Elizabeth HART be related to the Elizabeth OWENS ie Mrs Andrew DAY ie the mother of a lass born NSW 1916 with some info on your Refresh  NSW BDM Searches thread ?  Otherwise I am still confused perhaps thinking you may have more than 8 Great Grandparents names for someone in your tree.

Cheers JM

[jamison]

The certificate does not always give all the info. you suggest - as l have with many a certificate.

So l have to find out the info from other sources to fill in the blanks.

The Vic refernce number is of a Mary Ann not a Mary Ellen (or Ellen Mary) so cannot be sure as l have posted before.

Jamison

[jamison]

Elizabeth Hart (witness to marriage) could be the Aunt of Elizabeth Owens who married a Day.

Jamison

[majm]

Hi

I am not suggesting that the NSW cert gives you all that info ... quite the opposite ... I well know of the blanks on mcs for NSW BDMs ... I do know though that the clergy needed to obtain details from the intended before he could agree to marry the couple to each other and further the clergy needed to record that in his Church Records ... This was a fundamental reequirement of the various denominations in NSW but NSWBSM did not receive all that depth thus it sought legal authority to obtain access to the Church Ecords to in turn reconcile the NSW BDM registers.   That civil admibistration reconcilation process is not yet complete, but Church records are meant to be extant.  The hurdle is in gaining all the details from those Church Records.

Cheers JM

[majm]

Hi

I presumed you received the names of Patrick James Hart and Margaret Corcoran from the Church Records at Albury...  I now realise you mention they came from Church Records but not specifically from the actual Church where the ceremony took place ...  My apologies BUT the actual Church records should be extant they are never meant to be deliberately destroyed ..

 

The certificate does not always give all the info. you suggest - as l have with many a certificate.

So l have to find out the info from other sources to fill in the blanks.

The Vic refernce number is of a Mary Ann not a Mary Ellen (or Ellen Mary) so cannot be sure as l have posted before.

Jamison

[jamison]

Hello Majm

Not a problem !!!

Forget about Ellen Mary (Mary Ellen) for the moment and let`s see for something else.

Are there any records of any more children born to Patrick James Hart and Margaret Corcoran in Victoria or NSW.

Jamison