Livermore cambridge

[LizzieL]

When was the Joseph Livermore (the one who married Matilda Stone actually born). I cannot find a likely birth registration in Sittingbourne district.

In 1871 Sarah Ann Livermore who was born in Melbourn Cambs in 1838 (according to 1861 and 1871 censuses) was living in Barkway road, Royston with her three children. Mary Ann b abt 1863 Melbourn, Sarah jnr b abt 1867 Royston and John b end 1869 Royston. They were lodging with the Bird family. Listed above Sarah is Edmund Yourby b Potton, Beds. Sarah was his lodger in 1861, so I suspect Edmund was father to at least some of her children.
In 1881 Sarah and children have disappeared and Edmund has "married" a Mary Ann from Steeple Morden and is living in Newmarket Road, Cambridge.

When did Sarah take up the travelling life, it doesn't seem she was born into a travelling family.

If Joseph was born before 1871 in Sittingbourne he was unlikely to be Sarah's child

[Thermos]

My G G Grandmother was Mary Ann Livermore Born 1862 Bassingbourn Cambridge, Died 1942 Tolleshunt Major Essex. She was my G G granddad John Witney's Wife but I don't think they officially married. Probably just jumped over the broom!!
Mary's Mother was My G G G Grandmother she was was Sarah Ann Livermore Born 1838 & She lived with Edmund Jourby (Tombs) in Melbourn Cambridge in 1861 Census, Sarah's Dad was Joseph Livermore & I think the name Joseph comes up in quite a few generations.
Sarah and Edmund then go to Roysten in 1871 but are only recorded as Lodgers.
havn't got anything else until, 1901
Sarah Is then in Orset, Southend road in a Caravan in 1901.
Sarah had a brother Joseph born about 1822 in Barley Hearts, His Partner was Ann born about 1824, who had a son Joseph born about 1850 Melbourn Cambridge all Livermore's.
Sarah Ann Livermore Died age 74 1st May 1912 at the Bohemian Estate, Eastwood & one confusing bit is on the death certificate it says she is the widow of Herbert Livermore an earthenware hawker. Thats about as much as I know.
From what I know, some of the family went to Australia.

[LizzieL]

Mary's Mother was My G G G Grandmother she was was Sarah Ann Livermore Born 1838 & She lived with Edmund Jourby (Tombs) in Melbourn Cambridge in 1861 Census, Sarah's Dad was Joseph Livermore & I think the name Joseph comes up in quite a few generations.
Sarah and Edmund then go to Roysten in 1871 but are only recorded as Lodgers.
havn't got anything else until, 1901
Sarah Is then in Orset, Southend road in a Caravan in 1901.
Sarah had a brother Joseph born about 1822 in Barley Hearts, His Partner was Ann born about 1824, who had a son Joseph born about 1850 Melbourn Cambridge all Livermore's.

Sarah Ann was the daughter of Joseph Livermore (bapt Barley on 18 Jul 1799) and his second wife Ann Freshwater. She had a full brother called James b abt 1834. Joseph Livermore married Ann Freshwater on 31 Dec 1826 in Melbourn. Ann had previously had an illegitimate child called Joseph Freshwater bapt Melbourn on 25 Jan 1825 (father unknown).
The Joseph that Sarah and her widowed mother Ann are with in 1851 is Sarah's half brother Joseph Livermore. This Joseph Livermore was bapt in Barley on 7 Jan 1821 s/o Joseph Livermore and his first wife Ruth Chapman. They also had a son William bapt at Barley on 2 Mar 1823. Ruth Livermore nee Chapman was buried at Barley on 30 Mar 1824.

Joseph Livermore (1799) was the son of John Livermore and Elizabeth Ridgell who married in Barley on 17 Oct 1781. Joseph was the youngest of their 7 chldren.
John Livermore was buried in Barley on 29 Aug 1822. I believe he was the John Livermore bapt in Chrishall on 21 Nov 1756 s/o James Livermore and his wife Sarah nee Overill.

[Thermos]

Thanks Lizzie, 
I have some info of what you have put but that is as far back as I have, ( this info was given to me by my Grandads Cousin. this is what it says
'Sarah Ann Livermore was born 29th June 1838, the daughter of Ann Livermore (nee Freshwater) who was born 1808/1814 and Joseph Livermore (Deceased) (1799-1838) at the Union Workhouse, Bassingborne. (copy of birth certificate in file). Joseph and Ann married on the 31st December, 1826 at Melbourn.'
Sounds a very sad set of circumstances to be pregnant & loose your husband before your daughter was born, it must have been terrible, but poorer people didn't have long lives back then so guess it may have happened more back then?

'Then in the 1841 Census is has Sarah Aged 3 living with her mother Ann Livermore (31) and Brother James aged 7 - with Ann's parents, John Freshwater(65) and Eleanor Freshwater(60). Also Joseph Freshwater - 15 at Melbourn, Cambridge. Address given as 'The Green'.

'1851 Census Aged 13 living with her mother Ann aged 43( given as pauper/charwoman) also in household were Joseph Livermore aged 29 his wife Ann aged 27 and their son Joseph aged 1 year. Address given as 28 Highstreet, Melbourn, Cambridge.'   

1861 Census aged 23 Living with Edmund Jourby (Tombs) as a lodger at 63 High Street, Cambridge.

1871 Census Aged 32 Living with Edmund Tombs (hawker) as a lodger together with her daughter Mary Ann aged 8 (my G G grand mother), daughter Sarah aged 4 and son John aged 1. Address given as Barking Road, Royston. (at the same adress there was a Bird family. (in later years there was a marriage between Birds & Witneys)

then I have nothing until 1901Census,
Aged 65 Living with son Fred 23. Sarah given as a Licenced Hawker. Address as Caravan, Southend road, Corringham

1911 Census 74 living with Frederick Goody (hawker) and her grandson Jim Livermore (age given as 20 but could be a little older)also given as hawker. Address given as Eastwood. (I belive this to be her daughter Sarahs son James who was born on the 28th August, 1888 at Thundersley.

1912 She died on the 1st May 1912 at the Bohemian Estate Eastwood age given as 74 Widow of Herbert Livermore an earthenware hawker, The signature of the informant of her death was Kate Webb (her daughter) who was present at her death. (copy of death certificate in file.)

That is as much as I think I have & so don't understand where they got the Idea she was the widow of Herbert Livermore? As Her maiden Name was Livermore? Did she mary another Livemore in the time I have no record between 1871 & 1901???

Do you or anyone else have any information going back any further?

I find some of it confusing & I guess lots of them didn't really want people knowing to much & this is just one part of one side of the family! 

[LizzieL]

I don't believe Sarah Ann did legally marry anyone. Herbert may have been a story she told to her children. I think it likely Edmund Yourby was father of at least some of her children. In 1881 Edmund is with another lady and claims she is his wife although I can't find a marriage or a baptism for the 10 year old child who is listed as his daughter on the census.

If I'm right about the John Livermore from Chrishall being Joseph's father, then his parents are probably James Livermore and Sarah Overill who married in Chrishall on 13 Nov 1750. This James is possibly James son of another James and Frances nee Webb bapt 12 Nov 1721 in Chrishall. James and Frances married in Littlebury on 10 Jun 1718, the record says James Livermore of Chrishall to Frances Webb of this parish (Littlebury). I haven't found a burial for James snr yet or a baptism. I have checked Chrishall baptisms around the expected dates. Frances was buried in Chrishall on 14 Jun 1752, she is described as wife of James Livermore snr on the parish record so he must have still been alive when she died. I would guess James snr would be born mid 1690's

[Lisajj]

My Livermores lived on Newmarket Road, but I don't think they are related to this family.

[Thermos]

Thanks LizzieL,
think you are correct as Sarah Lived with Edmund quite a few years, & no one else in mentioned appart from the children. & on one of the pieces of info my Relative sent me has 'Mary Ann Yourby Livermore' on it?
Where  did you find this information? & I think that is a crazy coincidence as we have Webb used as a name in our family with John Witney who was with Mary Ann Livermore, they used the name Webb when my Great Granddad was christened in Kent, he was born in Tolleshunt Darcy. near Maldon.
I grew up in the Village where they settled, on Little Totham Plains, they seemed to travel between Cambridge, Essex & Kent for hop picking. & I know also next generation down Marys Son Walter Witney/Webb Married Alice Stone & they also traveled to Kent, Norfolk, Essex southend area/Hockley Tilbury, I know this from her telling my dad & by the Births registered for her brothers & sisters.
They also eventually settled at one of there winter stops with two Railway carriages converted on Little Totham Plains. It seems like lots of familys they had to stop traveling, at that point.

John Witney who we have no recorld of marying Mary Has on his Grave stone that Mary was later buried with the words 'The beloved husband of Mary Witney' but she uses Mary Ann Livermore - A spinster no occupation of Sarah Ann Livermore (deceased) on his Death certificate so I think that confirms they lived like they were married but never did.
they even fill out the 1911 Census as John & Mary Webb Married Living on The Plains Little Totham & all the childrens Names are correct & my Granddad when alive said he new they used this name & In his dads christening book it had Walter Webb also. this is one of the problems I'm finding & how they 'Disappear' for a few years.

But what I was also wondering is John Witney (the one that was with Mary) His Dad was John Witney also, & Married Charlotte Neale. do you know anything about this side?
they even fill out the 1911 Census as John & Mary Webb Living on The Plains Little Totham & all the childrens Names are correct & my Granddad when he new they used this & In his dads christening book it had Walter Webb also. this is one of the problems I'm finding & how they 'Disappear' for a few years.
I find It all interesting but not easy!
Thanks again for all your help!

[LizzieL]

Most of the information was from census records available on various sites also Hertfordshire parish registers but mostly Essex parish registers from SEAX. I started researching the Barley Livermores, to see if the two brothers who ran a carrier company in Barley and sold the business to the family who now run the coach company in the village were related to the earlier Livermores and to our lot from Little Chesterford / Littlebury. Researching Sarah Ann just came about by accident because there seem to be so many people interested in her.

You mention a daughter Kate who registered her death, I haven't come across her, but noted a difference in the number of children I know about and the number she states in 1911. have you any more details of Kate?

[Mark Brown Lamb]

I'm 10 years too late here but wanted to post some info on here so that it comes up in Google searches and others can investigate it. The Livermores are hard to find in the 1881 and 1891 censuses and it's no wonder. They're listed in West Tilbury under the name Goody in 1891 and this is mistranscribed on Ancestry as "Gordy":

Frederick Gordy40   Head
Sarah Gordy   40   Wife
Frederick Gordy
17   Son
Lewis Gordy
10   Son
Catherine Gordy
11   Daughter