Author Topic: johan mckay  (Read 15846 times)

Offline IanB

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Re: johan mckay
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 27 September 11 15:56 BST (UK) »
Hi Johan,

Johan was a fairly common name among the MacKays of Durness parish. One of my ancestors was Johan MacKay but she lived much earlier.In earlier times, Durness was the name of the large Parish that comprised much of the north coast of Sutherland. Much of the parish fell within what was known as "MacKay Country", i.e. the land controlled, at that time, by the Chiefs of Clan MacKay.

In consequence, roughly 25% of the population had the surname "MacKay", and many of those had the same given name, making identification difficult at times, although "eke" names and patronymics do help.

There were numerous settlements/townships/hamlets within the Parish, one of which was Durine the main settlement of what has become the Village of Durness. It is more or less in the centre of the village.

Johan, I believe more information might be forthcoming
if you provided us with some more details of what you already have.For example, the following questions occurred to me:

Where and when was Johan married?


If you have her birth certificate, why do you say she was born around a  certain year? Is the exact date not given on the certificate? Where was she born/christened?When and where did her mother, Margaret, die
/ Do you have a death certificate? They are usually quite informaticve.
I have a list of burials and headstones at Balnakeil cemetery and I can look for Johan's mother and grandmother if I have more details.. There is a Dolina who died in 1931 and two margaret MacKays.

Ian
Morrison, MacKay, MacCulloch, Sutherland, Dingwall, MacLeod, Donn, Calder,Blyth/Blythe; Baxter; Woodburn;Fleming;Hobkirk

Offline djct59

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Re: johan mckay
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 22 October 11 16:52 BST (UK) »
Well, the Free Church records of births, baptisms and marrages available online only cover 1843-1855. However, if your ancestor Johan MacKay was  born out of wedlock in 1879, it seems likely that her mother Margaret was born sometime around 20-30 years before that, and would appear to be one of -

1847 Sep 26 Margaret to James MacKay Lerin & Margaret MacKay
1848 Mar 19 Margaret to John MacKay Macritchie & Jean MacKay
1849 Nov 3 Margaret to James MacKay cottar Erriboll & Catherine Morrison

These are the only three Margaret MacKays recorded as baptised in Durness in the whole period above, so it seems likely that one of these three was Johan's mother. Not sure if that's any help.

Offline Tearlach

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Re: johan mckay
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 03 March 13 14:22 GMT (UK) »
Maragret Mackay was born in 1855, in Durness, to Donald Mackay and Dolina Morrison. 1855 was of course the first year of formal registrations, so I have the birth certificate from Scotlands people.

I have her tree going back another three or four generations from both her parents.

She is my GGG Grandmother and seems to have led a rather "interesting" life. I'm descended for her first daughter, Dolina Mackay, born in Thurso in 1871, when she was 16. She took the father, a local shoemaker, to court to prove paternity. However she is recorded in three places in the 1871 census - living at home with her partents in Durness, living with her Paternal Great Aunt next door and with her Maternal Aunt and Uncle in Thurso. (In 1861 she is recorded as living with both her parents and her G Aunt)

 By 1881 she had moving back to Durness, and had a second Daughter - your Johan - and was living with her Mother and Brother. She left my GG Grandmother in Thurso, in the care an 80 year old woman, who I suspect was a relative, but have yet to work that one through.

She then had two sons, Donald and Eric, both recorded as Mcculloch.

I have seen other references to Margaret Mackay on this board, but no-one seems to have noted that she lived in Thurso and had one daughter there before coming back to Durness.

I have spent quite a few years now getting to the bottom of Margaret's movements, and in doing so have managed to solve one family mystery. When I was a wee boy in Thurso there was always a family story that we had connections to Eilean nan Ròn in the Kyle of Tongue. In fact I was taken there as a baby in the early 60's in my Grandfather Mackays fishing boat, and was the first baby back there since the evacuation in the 30's. We still live on the North Coast, so as an Adult I started to see which bit of the family came from Eilean nan Ròn, or Eilean Roan. No luck, one branch of the Mackays were Strathnaver, another Kildonan, another Reay (Aberach's).

Margaret seemed the only other choice, but was a dead end in Thurso, as she vanished in 1871, right after the birth of her Daughter, my GG Grandmother. The Court case gave me the clue - she was living with two Mackay brothers, and a Morrison Aunt and Uncle in Thurso - all from Durness, all recorded in the 1871 census, so that allowed me to move on, and discover that her Mothers family were Morrisons from Eilean Hoan off Smoo, not Roan.

Mystery solved, I'd like to think. Just shows how a little luck with timing in records (my GG Grandmother birth in 1871 was a few days before the census, and the Paternity Court case was in the October of 1871) allowed me to get to the bottom of it all. 
Tearlach MacDaid

Offline jowall84j

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Re: johan mckay
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 16 March 13 19:44 GMT (UK) »
To the last post regards that Johan McKay had an older sister no one has ever mentioned this, can you show me evidence?


Offline djct59

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Re: johan mckay
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 16 March 13 21:06 GMT (UK) »
Many many years ago I worked in the Scottish Record Office "weeding" the court records of Wick Sheriff Court. For reasons of historical interest I retained about 10% of the records (although the indexer couldn't read my writing). There is a small chance that the court papers may still be held in the archives of West Register House in Edinburgh

Offline jowall84j

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Re: johan mckay
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 16 March 13 21:23 GMT (UK) »
I think you must have the wrong Margaret if I'm honest. That would mean that she had 4 kids to 3 different guys? I'm confused that she's your ggg grandma and your 58 she's my ggg and I'm only 28? I just assumed that if you were posting these facts the now that you'd have a census or death/birth Certs etc on your pc to email to me

Offline djct59

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Re: johan mckay
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 16 March 13 21:36 GMT (UK) »
In Caithness in the mid-19th century farm labourers lived in very communal conditions, with perhaps four young men and four young women sharing the same accommodation. The illegitimate birth rate was well over 20%.

As it was far from unknown for women to bear children until they were over forty, a thirty year age gap over three generations is not surprising - I have full cousins on my tree born as far apart as 1765 and 1802

Offline jowall84j

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Re: johan mckay
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 16 March 13 21:40 GMT (UK) »
But you don't have any evidence to show me? Surely my family would know if there was a sister? Everyone seems dumbfounded by this revelation

Offline Tearlach

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Re: johan mckay
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 16 March 13 23:22 GMT (UK) »
Relax - firstly I’m not surprised that your branch of the family never knew there was an older sister, because our branch of the family never knew there was a younger sister, and two younger brothers. Indeed my Mother, her Brother and all our cousins are dumbfounded that there two Glasgow branches of the family that we never knew about.

I guess the that the fact that your branch of the family never knew of an older sister is that Margaret seems to have abandoned her daughter -  my Great Great Grand Mother – called Dolina-  in Thurso somewhere between 1871 and 1881. Dolina was then brought up a possible elderly relative, was in service in Wick, had her own first daughter born out of wedlock,  then married my Great Grandfather and had a further 8 kids, including my Grand Mother, born 1901.
If I take you through my investigations, that may explain the background.

My Great Grandmother – Dolina Mackay was born in late March 1871 in Thurso. Her birth certificate has her mother as Margaret Mackay, and no father, i.e. illegitimate.  Margaret’s address is Bank Street, Thurso on the Birth Certificate. Dolina was known in my family as Dolina Swanson and we could never work out why, until I noticed a note on her Birth certificate saying that there had been a court case to prove paternity.

In October 1871 Margaret Mackay had taken a Donald Swanson – shoemaker – to court to prove paternity, and the court found in her favour. The court records show that Margaret lived in Bank Street Thurso at the time of her daughter’s birth, just three days before the census date. Donald Swanson lived in Campbell Street, but a trawl through the census returns for Thurso in 1871 shows that there was only one Margaret Mackay recorded there, living with her cousins and aunt and uncle, all Morrison’s and all born in Eribol, Durness. Next door was a family of shoemakers, so it’s not fanciful to imagine a 36 year old Donald Swanson visiting his cobbler pals in Bank Street, and seducing a 16 year old Margaret, fresh from Durness to the excitements of Thurso.

So we have a Margaret Mackay as my GG Grandmother, recorded as living in Bank Street Thurso three days before the birth of her daughter, six months later recorded as still in Bank Street, in the court case, and is the only Margaret Mackay recorded in the census in Bank Street. Indeed she was recorded as living with her Uncle George, and his sister Ann, both Morrison’s, and two cousins, also Morrison’s, all born in Durness.

A search through records for Durness births show a Morrison Family with a George, an Ann, and a Dolina, who married an Angus Mackay and who had a daughter Margaret Ann born Durness in 1855.

There are no other Margaret MacKay’s born in Durness for five years either side of that date. Indeed Margaret was also the youngest daughter of a large family, with just one younger brother Angus.

OK – so we get a Margaret Mackay in the 1861 Census recorded as living with her parents in 1861, but recorded as aged 4. In Durine  – right in the centre of Durness. We also get a Margaret Mackay aged 4 recorded as living with a Flora Mackay, in Durine in 1861. Margret is described as a “cousin”. Angus Mackay has an Aunt, of the same age, called Flora.

In 1871 we get a Margaret Mackay – recorded as aged 14 – living with her parents in Durness, We also get a Margaret Mackay recorded as 14, living with her Great Aunt Flora next door.  In 1871 we also get a Margaret Mackay living with her Mothers brother and sister in Thurso aged 20. There are no other Morrison family's in Durness at that time that show that same groupings of names and ages.

I’m dammed if I can find any evidence that they are not the same person. However it’s not uncommon for the same people to be recorded as living in various locations in the same census, indeed I have it a few times on other parts of my family, especially in Caithness  and Sutherland in the 1860’s and 70’s.

So 1881 census :-

Margaret Mackay – recorded as living in Durness, with her Mother, Brother and Daughter Johan, aged 1.

1891 census

Maggie Mackay recorded in in Durine, with her mother, older Brother, daughter Johan (10) and sons Donald and Eric Mcculloch – 7 and 3 respectively.

1901

Maggie Mackay living with her older brother Donald, and sons Donald and Eric Mcculloch – 18 and 14 respectively.

1911 – Margaret Mackay living alone in Durness

1929 – Margaret Mackay, father Angus Mackay, Mother Dolina Morrison, recorded as dying in the house of her son Eric McCulloch, Gibson Street, Glasgow.

So there we have it. Durness born  Margaret Mackay had a daughter Dolina in Thurso in 1871, to a Donald Swanson, whilst living with her Mothers Brother and Sister. She then moved back to Durness, leaving her daughter behind, and had another daughter – Johan – in 1890. In 1891 she was living with her Mother and older brother, and daughter.  She then had two sons by a McCulloch in the 1890’s, but was still living with her older brother in 1901, in Durness.

So - she did have four different kids to three different guys. Her first was when she was 16, and she abandoned her first born - my Grandmothers mother -  to a relative, then moved back home to her folks. Then your Johan - again out of wedlock - and then the two McCulloch boys.

Since she seems to have moved to Glasgow between 1911 and 1929, I wonder if any of your side of the family have any stories about her?


Tearlach MacDaid