Author Topic: Laura or Nora PASCOE  (Read 2728 times)

Offline djpegg

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Laura or Nora PASCOE
« on: Tuesday 04 October 11 16:08 BST (UK) »
I wonder if someone could help me. Ernest Waters (Walters) married a women called Nora(h) Beatrice Pascoe (1883-1920). Free BMD lists a marriage in Penzance in 1904. She died in March, 1920 in Gloucester (according to Free BMD). She emigrated to the US in 1909 with her children to meet up with her husband Ernest, who had gone ahead. She was listed on the ship's passenger list and the US census of 1910 as Norah Walters. She returned to England on a ship in Dec 1910. Now here is the mystery. I can't find any evidence of a Nora Beatrice Pascoe prior to he 1904 marriage. Instead I find a Laura Beatrice Pascoe who was born in Helston in 1883 and who appeared on the 1891 and 1901 censuses in the household of her parents, William and Emma Pascoe. I think this must be the same person. It would be too much of a coincidence to have the same middle name and same year of birth. Ernest came from Breage, the same parish as her mother, Emma. I am wondering why she would change her name from Laura in the 1901 census to Nora at the time of the 1904 marriage. I am a bit worried about this marriage though. Why would it be in PZ if she was from Helston and he was from Breage? One other piece of evidence which makes me feel Laura and Nora are the same person is to do with her sister Elizabeth (often referred to as Lilly ). Lilly Pascoe married Ernest's brother, Burt Waters and they lived in Ashton. Any help, comments or suggestions would be very welcome. Regards David

Offline lizdb

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Re: Laura or Nora Pascoe
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 04 October 11 16:23 BST (UK) »
At her marriage in 1904, who does Norah name as her father?
Is it William, with the same occupation as the William you have found Laura with?
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline djpegg

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Re: Laura or Nora Pascoe
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 04 October 11 16:34 BST (UK) »
Thanks lizdb. Unfortunately, I could only find an index Free BMD reference to the marriage. It didn't have the name of her father or his occupation. I tried looking for a marriage in Helston or Breage between 1901, when she lived with her parents, and 1909, when she appeared on the passenger list as a married woman. No success. I have the Breage Parish Records and the marriage didn't take place there. Helston would be the most obvious place if she were indeed Laura.

Offline lizdb

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Re: Laura or Nora Pascoe
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 04 October 11 16:38 BST (UK) »
You will need to get the marriage cert to find this info.

Can be ordered online from www.gro.gov.uk using the ref from the index.

The cert will tell you exactly where the marriage took place too.
Penzance, in the index, is the Registration District, and will cover many parishes. I dont know offhand if Helston or Breage are in that REg District or not.

But the marriage cert should answer some of your questions, I would say.

Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline osprey

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Re: Laura or Nora PASCOE
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 05 October 11 14:26 BST (UK) »
Helston & Breage came under the Helston registration district at the time

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/helston.html

but Penzance is the registration district immediately to the west, so they could have married in say, Perranuthnoe or St Hilary, & the marriage would show as registered Penzance & took place not far from Breage.
http://www.cornwall-opc.org/MAPS/parish_map.pdf

marriage of Burt
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=732241

Laura's baptism
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1750955

As lizdb says, you need the marriage cert to be sure.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline djpegg

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Re: Laura or Nora PASCOE
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 05 October 11 15:10 BST (UK) »
Thanks osprey. I didn't have a record of Burt's second marriage. It proves he married Elizabeth Lilli Pascoe, the younger sister of Laura Beatrice Pascoe. This i remember being told by the family many years ago. I also found out from the passenger list from Southampton to New York that Nora Beatrice Walters , the wife of Ernest Walters (they used different variations of Waters, Walters and Watters then) was born in Helston in 1883, as was Laura Beatice Pascoe. To me, this is too much of a coincidence and I think Nora Beatrice must be the same person as Laura Beatrice. I am not sure why she change her forename or why she decided to marry in the PZ district and not Helston or Breage. Of course, you are right that the marriage certificate would be necessary to prove it. My sister lives in Cornwall and could go to the County Records Office in Truro. Do you think the certificate would be there? Thanks again to all. Any further comments would be appreciated. David

Offline osprey

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Re: Laura or Nora PASCOE
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 05 October 11 16:00 BST (UK) »
to find the marriage in the record office you would need to show which parish church it took place in. Or someone could search all the parish churches in Penzance reg district & there are several
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/penzance.html

It could be that the church hasn't deposited the records as yet as the register is still in use. Or they may have married in a non-conformist church or the register office.

So you could spend hours searching & not find it or you could buy it from the GRO. You could try the registrars in Truro but they also need to know the parish.

http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=14466

Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Richard1962

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Re: Laura or Nora PASCOE
« Reply #7 on: Monday 03 April 17 22:06 BST (UK) »
Laura/Nora was my great grandmother. Her first children were born out of marriage and it is believed in the family that she changed her name to hide the fact. Ernest changed the surname to Walters at the same time and then it changed to Waters and caused great legal problems when my grand mother died

Richard

Offline djpegg

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Re: Laura or Nora PASCOE
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 04 April 17 23:45 BST (UK) »
Richard: Thanks for the message. My step-father was Cecil Watters. He was the son of Ernest and Nora and was born in 1906 in Ashton. I looked at the censuses 1881 and 1891. The father Thomas named Waters on his 1876 marriage certificate) and his two sons, Burt and Ernest, were listed as Watters in 1881 but it changed to Waters in 1891. In the 1901 census, Thomas and Ernest were listed as Waters. Burt left for the US in 1900 and the ship manifest had him as a Watters. Ernest joined him a little later and called himself Walters. So it was a big mess-up. Maybe there were transcription errors. The Breage parishes have several generations of Ernest's ancestors as Waters, which I think is the correct name. By 1906, when my step father was born, both Burt and Ernest called themselves Watters.
My half-brother and sister still live in the Breage.  area. They are the children of Cecil Watters. Not sure if you are in their generation or one later. You mentioned Nora as your great grandmother in one place and your grandmother in another. Who was your father and mother? Do you live in Cornwall? Again, thanks for your message, David (Pegg)