Author Topic: help finding James Steel's ancestors  (Read 5722 times)

Offline barb in vancouver

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help finding James Steel's ancestors
« on: Monday 10 October 11 03:33 BST (UK) »
My great great grandfather, James Steele may have been born in 1821. He married Grace Fraser Robertson in 1849 in Banff. They had 8 children:- Elizabeth, Ann, Alexander, Mary, Hugh, James, William and John. He was the blacksmith at Blairshinnoch farm, Banff, and died there in 1886. I am trying to find out where he was born, the names of any siblings, and his mother's name. I believe his father's name may have been Robert, but there was no name for his mother on his death certificate. I do not believe his parents are Robert Still and Margaret Simm of Banff.   All help appreciated
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Re: help finding James Steel's ancestors
« Reply #1 on: Monday 10 October 11 23:09 BST (UK) »
The 1851 and 1861 census (on FreeCen http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl) and the 1881 census CD-ROM transcription all give his place of birth as Banff, Banffshire.

He was consistently 30 in 1851, 40 in 1861 and 60 in 1881, so was born in 1820/21. (The census was always taken around the end of March, so anyone born from April to December would not have had a birthday in the census year, and would be listed with the age on their birthday in the previous year. So someone aged 50 in 1871 is three times more likely to have been born in 1820 than in 1821. The practice of 'calculating' the year of birth by simply subtracting the age from the census year gives a wrong answer in roughly three out of four cases.)

If his father was Robert (what does the death certificate say?) it seems odd that he didn't name a son Robert. On the other hand they didn't name a daughter Elspet after Grace's mother, so maybe they were not bothered by the tradition.

Who registered the death?

The 1881 census, incidentally, lists both James Steele, age 60, born Banff and James Still, aged 58, born Banff, which seems to confirm that they are two different people, but I have not found James Still on FreeCen anywhere.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline barb in vancouver

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Re: help finding James Steel's ancestors
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 11 October 11 06:14 BST (UK) »
Thanks for responding to my questions. I have also had a response from a descendant of Robert Still and Margaret Simm confirming that James Steel and James Still are two different people. My James death was registered by his eldest son Alexander who is my gr gr grandfather. He lists Robert Steele as James father and "unknown" for his mother. Also I wonder if he really was born in Banff as I can't find any record of his birth in the OPR for Banff Parish. He may have just said that for the census as he had to say something. According to an obituary that I have for him he apprenticed as a silversmith prior to becoming a blacksmith. I roughly calculate that he was only 11 or 12 when he started that apprenticeship. So he may have left home very young or may have been orphaned at that time?? His obituary simply states that he was a native of the region and does not mention his parents although it mentions his wife's father. All the records I have seen seem to leave out James parents.

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Re: help finding James Steel's ancestors
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 11 October 11 10:47 BST (UK) »
Also I wonder if he really was born in Banff as I can't find any record of his birth in the OPR for Banff Parish. He may have just said that for the census as he had to say something.

It certainly looks as if he believed he was born in Banff in 1820/1 because he was consistent in his replies throughout the census. It is far more likely that he was genuinely born in Banff and that for some reason his baptism was not recorded, or if it was the record has not survived. This is common enough to be the most likely explanation. I have hundreds of people in various families born in the first half of the 19th century who are missing from the records.

The Statistical Account of Banff says that at the time of writing (1797) there were in Banff, besides the Church of Scotland parish church of St Mary's, a Relief church with a congregation of 400, an episcopalian congregation of about 300, and about 100 Roman Catholics.

I take it that you have checked the Roman Catholic records at Scotland's People as well as the OPR? If there are extant records of the relief or episcoalian churches, they may be in the National Archives of Scotland www.nas.gov.uk under catalogue No CH3/

Quote
According to an obituary that I have for him he apprenticed as a silversmith prior to becoming a blacksmith. I roughly calculate that he was only 11 or 12 when he started that apprenticeship. So he may have left home very young or may have been orphaned at that time??

That's possible. Or he could have been illegitimate, or his family could have been very poor.

If he was illegitimate, there might be some record in the minutes of the Banff Kirk Session, which are in the National Archives of Scotland www.nas.gov.uk under catalogue no CH2/1109. You need to go to Register House in Edinburgh or one of a small number of local archives which have access to the digitised verson of this.

There's no point thinking about the Poor Law records because they don't start until 1845. Before that, the relief of the poor was the responsibility of the parish, and the Kirk Session records may record payments to pauper families, or other expenditure such as purchasing clothing or boots for pauper children. I suggest that that is your next move.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline MonicaL

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Re: help finding James Steel's ancestors
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 11 October 11 14:44 BST (UK) »
It doesn't help with his family and roots, but I wondered whether this was James in 1841 given his lifetime occupation:

Lewis Wilson 30 blacksmith
Mary Wilson 30
Alex Wilson 2
Mary Wilson 10 Months
Geo Duncan 8
Ann Duncan 12
James Steel 20, apprentice blacksmith
Mary Grant   15  Female Servant
Jean Wilson 60 Independent

Address: Blairshennoch, Banff

All the Wilsons show as born in the county, the rest do not. Freecen's 1841 transcript shows the same info.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline barb in vancouver

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Re: help finding James Steel's ancestors
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 11 October 11 17:14 BST (UK) »
To Forfarlan
Thanks. All that you have mentioned - lost records, poverty, illegitimate. Addoption? Were children officially adopted in those days or did family usually take the baby. When I checked the OPR for Banffshire I noticed that many illegitimate or "natural" children are recorded and I did not find my James. thinking that he may have been born under another name, there was a James Leslie born at Paddock Law in Dec. 1922. Which puts him in the right place at the right time. This is pure speculation. I have not checked the Catholic records as no one in my family, that I know of, belonged to the Catholic Church. However, silly of me to make any assumptions and under the "leave no stone unturned" approach I should have checked there and will do so.

 My next must be to plan a trip to Scotland so that I can look at look at the records held there. You have given me ideas on where  to start my search.

Thanks for all your help.
Barb

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Re: help finding James Steel's ancestors
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 11 October 11 18:44 BST (UK) »
Addoption? Were children officially adopted in those days or did family usually take the baby.

No. There was no formal adoption process at that time.

Quote
When I checked the OPR for Banffshire I noticed that many illegitimate or "natural" children are recorded and I did not find my James. thinking that he may have been born under another name, there was a James Leslie born at Paddock Law in Dec. 1922. Which puts him in the right place at the right time.

Only if you believe he was born at Paddock Law and in 1922! Or even 1822 ;-) As I have already pointed out, the likelihood is that he was actually born in 1820/21. James Still, who was born in 1822 at Paddock Law, is listed as aged 58 in the 1881 census, in which your James Steele is listed as aged 60.

In any case the James Leslie born in December 1822 was the son of John Leslie and Jane Laurence; no Robert and no Steele.



Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline barb in vancouver

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Re: help finding James Steel's ancestors
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 11 October 11 19:03 BST (UK) »
Yes you are right. I am grasping at straws. I was thinking about the James Lislie only if my James may have been adopted or raised by another family and went by a new last name.

Note to MonicaL: I tried to answer you with a separate email but the program would not accept it. That is my James that you found. He completed his blacksmith apprenticeship at Blairshennoch and later came back to work there.


Offline 1795Duke

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Re: help finding James Steel's ancestors
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 24 December 17 19:09 GMT (UK) »
Hello, I was looking up information about my distant relatives and found this information.
I can't find out any more.

James Steele (b: 23 June,1821, c: 4 July 1821, d. September 1886)
James Steele (son of Charles Steele and Margaret Doig) born 1821 in Forfar, and died September 1886 aged 65.
He married Grace Fraser Smith Robertson on December 27, 1849.

James also had a brother called John ( b: 1822/23 d:1867 typhus fever)
Charles Steele (b: 18 June 1776, c:19 June 1776) occupation was listed as Brewer.
He married Margaret Doig 13 November 1819.
Margaret Doig (b:1793 Glamis, Angus

Alexander Milne Steele, b. 5am March 21, 1855, Banff Landward, d. March 23, 1939, Banff.

Kind regards Anna
 
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