Author Topic: John France - where is he in 1861 and where is he buried?  (Read 2071 times)

Offline Luzzu

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John France - where is he in 1861 and where is he buried?
« on: Sunday 16 October 11 23:34 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Hoping someone can help fill in a couple of gaps please.

John France was born in Slaithwaite, Yorkshire and baptised at Slaithwaite St James 27 May 1787.  He had moved to Manchester by 1821.

In 1841 and 1851 he is living at Lyons Court, Abingdon Street, Manchester.

His wife, Hannah, died in 1857 and is buried in Ardwick Cemetery.  She died at Woburn Place, Chorlton-on-Medlock and John was present at the death.

John died in January 1863, aged 74, at 12 Ernest Street, Manchester but I can't find a burial for him.

Can anyone see him in 1861?
Can anyone help me find out who was living at 12 Ernest Street in 1861?
Can anyone suggest where he might be buried?

Thank you.

Luzzu
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Armitage, Slaithwaite; Buck, Staffs & Hampshire; Buckley, Bolton & Manchester; Temple, London & Hampshire; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh, Manchester & Todmorden; Gralton/Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Slaithwaite; Shackleton, Burnley & Yorkshire; Dicks, Nottingham & Wiltshire; Sowter, Derbyshire

Offline mosiefish

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Re: John France - where is he in 1861 and where is he buried?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 16 October 11 23:56 BST (UK) »
Hi Luzzu  :)

12 Ernest Street, Manchester in 1861 although probably not much help:

James Yates, Head, Mar, 27, Engine Tenter, Prestwich
Sarah, Wife, Mar, 28, Cotton Winder, Bolton
Mary, Daur, 3, Manchester
Fanny, Daur, 10 months, Manchester

Mo
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline meggles

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Re: John France - where is he in 1861 and where is he buried?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 16 October 11 23:59 BST (UK) »
Hi - in 1861 at 12 Ernest street -  James Yates, Sarah Yates, Mary Yates and Fanny Yates.
James was the head and was a engine Tenter and Sarah his wife was a cotton winder.
Mary and Fanny were their daughters.
Cheers
Megan
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Offline Luzzu

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Re: John France - where is he in 1861 and where is he buried?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 17 October 11 00:07 BST (UK) »
Thanks for checking 12 Ernest Street for me.  You're right it doesn't help.  I was hoping there might be some of John's family living there but I don't know who the Yates family are  :-[.

Luzzu
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Armitage, Slaithwaite; Buck, Staffs & Hampshire; Buckley, Bolton & Manchester; Temple, London & Hampshire; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh, Manchester & Todmorden; Gralton/Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Slaithwaite; Shackleton, Burnley & Yorkshire; Dicks, Nottingham & Wiltshire; Sowter, Derbyshire


Offline Luzzu

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Re: John France - where is he in 1861 and where is he buried?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 17 October 11 15:34 BST (UK) »
Just found a note in my files  ::)  ???  ::) that he is Rusholme Road in grave 3377 but I don't know how I know that as it was before the FindMyPast Manchester records came online and I can't find it on there and my note leaves a lot to be desired.

So just need to find him in 1861 now.  I suppose he could have got missed off or perhaps there is a page missing.

Luzzu  :)
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Armitage, Slaithwaite; Buck, Staffs & Hampshire; Buckley, Bolton & Manchester; Temple, London & Hampshire; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh, Manchester & Todmorden; Gralton/Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Slaithwaite; Shackleton, Burnley & Yorkshire; Dicks, Nottingham & Wiltshire; Sowter, Derbyshire

Offline Radcliff

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Re: John France - where is he in 1861 and where is he buried?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 17 October 11 16:39 BST (UK) »
is he with the Blakeley family in Mirfield Yorkshire,he is 80 and a joiner,his Grandson Joe was born in Manchester
Gunning County Down,Kneale Isle of Man,Riddle Tynemouth,Bibby Kendal/Bradford,Colenso Penzance/Barrow-in-Furness,Steele Corney Fell,Chapman Ely,Dawes Alfreton,Blamire Westmoreland and Ulverston
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Offline Luzzu

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Re: John France - where is he in 1861 and where is he buried?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 18 October 11 12:45 BST (UK) »
Thanks Radcliff.  It's certainly a possibility but I am not sure at all.

My John France should have been in his early 70's in 1861 so the one with the Blakeley family is a bit old but then they weren't very accurate with their ages.

My John France, as far as know, didn't have a daughter called Ann.

The children I have so far are:-

Henry b1812 Slaithwaite
Joseph b1814 Slaithwaite
Mary b1818 Slaithwaite
William b1819 Slaithwaite
Charles b1820 Manchester
Jonathan b1826 Manchester
Adam b1830 Manchester

All the older children moved to Manchester, married and died there with the exception of Mary b1818,  I don't have a record of her after he baptism.

There are some gaps and I think there might be some children missing but there aren't any gaps around 1819 when the Ann Blakeley would have been born.  I would have thought there should have been a child called Ann or Hannah as that was his wife's name.

Then there is Mirfield.  Although not far from Slaithwaite, Mirfield hasn't appeared on any of the records for this family.  Everything for John and also his brother, William, happened in Slaithwaite and then the two brothers moved their families to Manchester almost simultaneously.

So I am not sure  ???.

Luzzu
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Armitage, Slaithwaite; Buck, Staffs & Hampshire; Buckley, Bolton & Manchester; Temple, London & Hampshire; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh, Manchester & Todmorden; Gralton/Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Slaithwaite; Shackleton, Burnley & Yorkshire; Dicks, Nottingham & Wiltshire; Sowter, Derbyshire

Offline Radcliff

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Re: John France - where is he in 1861 and where is he buried?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 18 October 11 15:35 BST (UK) »
Did they have two Marys the baptism I was looking at last night was August 1816
Gunning County Down,Kneale Isle of Man,Riddle Tynemouth,Bibby Kendal/Bradford,Colenso Penzance/Barrow-in-Furness,Steele Corney Fell,Chapman Ely,Dawes Alfreton,Blamire Westmoreland and Ulverston
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Offline Luzzu

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Re: John France - where is he in 1861 and where is he buried?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 18 October 11 17:07 BST (UK) »
Yes you are right.  Sorry.  I'm in a bit of muddle now.  I am starting checking to try and identify a marriage for him and thought it best to try and double check everything first.  Only one Mary but baptised 25 August 1816.  Thank you.  This is what I have so far:-

17.05.1812 Henry
09.01.1814 Joseph
25.08.1816 Mary
1819? William

The baptisms are at Slaithwaite St James, the address is Hilltop, his occupation is cotton spinner and the mother is Hannah on Joseph and Mary's but their is no mother's name for Henry.

I haven't  found one yet for William but he could have been born in Slaithwaite and baptised at Manchester Cathedral.  I haven't got upto double checking the Manchester Cathedral ones yet.

I think there were 3 or 4 John Frances baptising children at Slaithwaite St James at that time.

Luzzu
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Armitage, Slaithwaite; Buck, Staffs & Hampshire; Buckley, Bolton & Manchester; Temple, London & Hampshire; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh, Manchester & Todmorden; Gralton/Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Slaithwaite; Shackleton, Burnley & Yorkshire; Dicks, Nottingham & Wiltshire; Sowter, Derbyshire