Author Topic: Fitzgeralds and the Gherardini.  (Read 13272 times)

Offline MacGearailt

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Fitzgeralds and the Gherardini.
« on: Friday 21 October 11 22:21 BST (UK) »
Does anyone here have any ideas of the connections between these families or can they be discredited?

Offline Purpeller

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
    • View Profile
Re: Fitzgeralds the Gherardini.
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 25 October 11 14:59 BST (UK) »
It is complete nonsense.  I did the genealogy course in UCD and Sean Murphy, the lecturer, talked about this at length.  He had gone to some efforts to try and find a connection but found nothing and reckoned that it just suited both families to allow the legend to continue.  I can't find any links to where he has written about this online but we definitely looked at it in the course.
Dublin, Limerick, Carlow, Waterford, Wicklow, Pembrokeshire

Offline MacGearailt

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: Fitzgeralds the Gherardini.
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 25 October 11 18:09 BST (UK) »
The Gherardini surname was being used in Tuscany well before The Fitzgerald surname was adopted by the ancestors  of of the Kildare line. So I agree that They must have been mistaken, however I still find it interesting. 'Complete nonsense' is a bit harsh, considering a UCD lecturer went to the trouble of trying to find a connection.

Offline Purpeller

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
    • View Profile
Re: Fitzgeralds and the Gherardini.
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 25 October 11 19:26 BST (UK) »
:) That was actually a quote of what he said!!
Dublin, Limerick, Carlow, Waterford, Wicklow, Pembrokeshire


Offline Pastmagic

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,375
  • Levington House, Mullingar
    • View Profile
Re: Fitzgeralds and the Gherardini.
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 25 October 11 19:34 BST (UK) »
http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/Leonardo-DaVincis-Mona-Lisa---the-Irish-connection-119467734.html

Still is a good story...there are various claims around the web on this long standing question.
PM

Offline MacGearailt

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: Fitzgeralds and the Gherardini.
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 25 October 11 19:58 BST (UK) »
The thing is there is no evidence that Dominus Otho was a Gherardini. His grandsons were Fitzwalters.

Offline MacGearailt

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: Fitzgeralds and the Gherardini.
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 25 October 11 20:33 BST (UK) »
Here's where the 'myth' originated;
Among the Gherardini papers is the following letter,
written by the Earl, in May, 1507 :
" To be given to all the family of the Gherardini,
noble in fame and virtue, dwelling in Florence, our
beloved brethren in Florence. Gerald, Earl of Kildare,
Lord Deputy of the Kingdom of Ireland, sends greeting
to all the family of Gherardini dwelling in Florence.
" Most grateful to us have been your letters to us,
most illustrious men. From them we have learned to
know the fervour of the fraternal love that you bear to
your own blood. But in order to increase your joy
still more, I will briefly inform you of the state of your
relations in these parts. Know, then, that my predecessors
and ancestors passed from France into England,
and having remained there for some time, they, in the
year 1140 (1170), arrived in this island of Ireland, and
by their swords obtained great possessions, and achieved
great feats of arms ; and up to the present day have
increased and multiplied into many branches and families,
insomuch that I, by the grace of God, possess by
hereditary right the earldom, and am Earl of Kildare,
holding diverse castles and manors, and by the liberality
of our Most Serene Lord the King of England, I am now
his Deputy in the whole of Ireland, during the pleasure
of his Majesty, an honour frequently obtained heretofore
by my father and my predecessors. There is also a
relation of ours in these parts called the Earl of Desmond,
under whose lordship there are 100 miles, in
length, of country. Our house has increased beyond
measure, in a multitude of barons, knights, and noble
persons, holding many possessions, and having under
their command many persons. We are most desirous
to know the deeds of our ancestors, so that if you have
in your possession any history, we request you to communicate
it to us. We wish to know the origin of our
house, and their numbers, and the names of your ancestors
; whether there are any of them settled in France,
and who of our family inhabit the Roman territory. I
also wish to know the transactions of the present time,
for it gives me great joy always to hear news of our house.
If there is anything that we can procure for you through
our labour and industry, or anything that you have not
got, such as hawks, falcons, horses, or dogs for the chase,
I beg you will inform me of it, as I shall, in every possible
way, endeavour to obey your wishes. God be with
you, and do you love us in return. From our Castle of
Castledermot, 27th day of May, 1507,
"GERALD,
"Chief in Ireland of the Family of the Geraldines,
Earl of Kildare, Lord Deputy of the Most
Serene King of England, in Ireland."
It is remarkable that about that time, Lodovico Ariosto
in his" Orlando Furioso," made mention of the Earls of
Kildare and Desmond, as follows :
" Or guarda gl'Ibernesi appreso il piano :
Sono due squadre ; e il conte di Childera
Hena la prima ; e il conte di Desmonda
Da fieri, monti ha tratta la seconda.
Nello stendardo, il primo ha un pino ardente ;
L'altro nel bianco una vermiglia banda."
Canto x.,

Offline MacGearailt

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: Fitzgeralds and the Gherardini.
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 17 November 11 20:54 GMT (UK) »
For anyone interested In the most realistic origin of the Fitzgeralds, please 'Read Online' this copy of The Ancestor, in Which Historian J Horace Round gives his version on page 119;

http://www.archive.org/stream/ancestorquarterl01londuoft#page/n161/mode/2up


Offline MacGearailt

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: Fitzgeralds and the Gherardini.
« Reply #8 on: Friday 25 November 11 20:49 GMT (UK) »
The surname Fitzgerald, Gaelic MacGearailt is of Norman origin, descended from Maurice, son of Gerard, The Constable of Pembroke in Wales who invaded Ireland with Strongbow in 1172.  In May 1507 Gerald, Earl of Kildare wrote a letter to ‘To all the family of ‘The Gherardini’ claiming common decent.  However he must have been mistaken as the Tuscan Gherardini are said to be descended from Gherardo who was born c 1020, over a hundred and fifty years before it was adopted by the Norman Geraldine’s. However A. Fitzgibbon accepts the Gherardini’s belief that Maurice was not descended from Gerald Fitz Walter of Winsor, but came from Tuscany in the year 1170.  J Horace Round in his study; The Origins of The Fitzgerald’s, dismantles these myths, putting it down to ‘Irish Earls panting over Trojan Ancestry’ and asserts that ‘Other’ who was mentioned in the Doomsday Book of 1086, was the earliest of the Fitzgerald line recorded.