Author Topic: Peter Sabey of Roxton  (Read 18762 times)

Offline bedfordshire boy

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,239
    • View Profile
Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 23 October 13 07:51 BST (UK) »
I also wonder why Francis Sabey named his first daughter Dinah.
Perhaps it was nothing more sinister than that they liked the name. Have you looked at his wife's side of the family to see it she had any Dinahs? Perhaps Charlotte's mother was Dinah.

What if
The second Peter son of Peter and Dinah Peter Saby bap 1735 at Roxton Beds married
Mary Hammett 1759 at Gt Stukeley, both otp. Mary was buried at Gt Stukeley on 11 Nov 1764 (no children found)
This is what I show in my tree with the warning that it's pure conjecture with not a shred of evidence. But there is another Sabey baptism in Gt Stukeley, on 4 Oct 1761 of John, son of Robert and Mary. There was only one Sabey family in Gt Stukeley at this time, Peter & Mary, and there's no trace of a Robert. I think Robert is a PR error, and it should be Peter, but that's unproveable.

Peter 1768 (?died 1839 Gt Stukeley married ?? a Francis Harden b abt 1777 (Ancestry Tree).
Unless the tree is mine I wouldn't place any credibility on Ancestry trees, and even if it were mine I'd still check it!

Could Frances born circa 1760-1766 have been born before the second marriage in 1766 which is why he was not baptised until his own marriage? Did Francis name his first daughter after his grandmother Dinah?
He could have been, but I don't think he was, and I don't follow the argument that the second marriage of his father was why his own baptism was delayed for 30 years.

Francis could have named his daughter after his grandmother I suppose, but it goes against naming patterns, where his own mother's name should have been used first, and is it really likely that he would have used the name of a grandmother who died 30 years before he was born?

I'm sorry but I'm still convinced that Francis was the non-conformist unbaptised son of the non-conformist Sabeys who were living in Bolnhurst at that time. To try to conjure up a scenario that he was the unbaptised son of Church of England parents living in Gt Stukeley, who baptised their other children, and that he then pitched up in Bolnhurst as a non-conformist, based solely on the speculation that he named a daughter Dinah after a grandmother who had died 30 years before he was born is too much for me. One can "what if" to the nth degree but there's not a shred of evidence to support it. If he'd been such a stickler for naming his children after his side of the family I'd have expected a son to be named Peter if Peter really was his own father.

There is also a Peter Seaby s of Thomas and Mary bap 1761 Harrold Beds who married Ann Errington in 1790 at Harold. Perhaps Peter's father was Tho Saby s of Peter and Dinah 1725 at Roxton Beds
Perhaps he was. Or perhaps he was from Northants.


Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Hemmum

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 23 October 13 08:52 BST (UK) »
Thank you for your time and opinion and I am sure you are correct. I suppose I was just looking at all angles.

I did consider that Charlotte White's mother may have been named Dinah and her possible baptism (of course she could have also been NC but she was not baptised at her marriage like Francis which indicates she had been baptised as a child). From Charlotte's burial she was born about 1767.
The two baptisms I found were;

Charlotte King or White bap 14 Oct 1764 d of Bernard King and Ann White at Cranfield Beds (14 m S of Bolhurst)
Charlotte White bap 1 Nov 1767 d of Robythan [?Ephraim] and Elizabeth at Felmersham Beds (7 miles W of Bolnhurst) ?had brother Samuel 1770 NO Sabey on batch.

The second baptism fits her age better and Charlotte named a son Samuel but apart from that there is little else to link her to this baptism.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline bedfordshire boy

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,239
    • View Profile
Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #20 on: Friday 25 October 13 17:46 BST (UK) »
I'm sorry but I'm still convinced that Francis was the non-conformist unbaptised son of the non-conformist Sabeys who were living in Bolnhurst at that time.
Now not quite so convinced, as I'm not so sure that both the Sabey families in Bolnhurst were non-conformist. John certainly was, but he didn't name Francis in his will. so I've ruled him out. But I'm not sure about the other family, Joseph, who might have been established church. But he didn't baptise any further children between 1752 and 1769 when his first wife died. But he remarried twice more each time baptising a child in the established church. In my own tree I'm continuing to show Francis' parents as unknown.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline johnP-bedford

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,181
    • View Profile
Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 02 November 13 15:10 GMT (UK) »
............. I also wonder why Francis Sabey named his first daughter Dinah ?

OK if I follow all this ... Robythan White, widower married Elizabeth Aspitall, widow at Bolnhurst on 11 Oct 1766. They baptised daughter Charlotte in 1767 at Felmersham & then she marries Francis Sabey at Bolnhurst on 15 Nov 1790 & they have daughter Dinah 1791.

Elizabeth Aspitall was Elizabeth Elms & married William Asptall at Bolnhust in Apr 1760. Elizabeth 1735 is most likely is sister of Francis Elms 1741.... William Asptall was a blacksmith as was Francis Elms. 

However Robythan White was previously married to a Dinah.... as Dinah White, wife of Rubenthan was buried at Bolnhurst 30 Mar 1764.

So my question is who was this Dinah - has anyone found their marriage

Thus Dinah Sabey is named after Charlotte's father's first wife ?... perhaps
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Partridge - North Beds; Northants & Peterborough
Bishop - Bedford; Hunts, Hemingford Grey
Allen - Hunts, Hemingford Abbotts
Clement - Croydon
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline Lynn S

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 97
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 02 November 13 15:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi John
Have also seen that a Henry White was buried at Bolnhurst in 1767 do you have any info on him?
Can't find anything on Robythan White on the IGI apart from births of Charlotte & Samuel so got stuck there. I'm descended from Dinah Sabey who married James Page they are my 3xgt-grands.
Cheers Lynn S

Offline Lynn S

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 97
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 02 November 13 16:22 GMT (UK) »
Hi John
Just had a quick look on Ancestry & seen a Rueben White bap. kids at Wilstead there is a Thomas c. 16/12/1692 & 2 sisters but they die 1700 & 1704. Reuben buried 31/12/1710 & wife Mary buried 10/2/1709. Not found any other info on this Thomas but could poss be that he survives & names a son Rubythan or some variation. Not found anything on Dinah the first wife as yet will keep digging.
Cheers Lynn S

Offline bedfordshire boy

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,239
    • View Profile
Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 02 November 13 17:07 GMT (UK) »
............. I also wonder why Francis Sabey named his first daughter Dinah ?
Thus Dinah Sabey is named after Charlotte's father's first wife ?... perhaps

Thank you for the reality check John.

I've also seen it where the daughter of the second marriage appears to have been named after the first wife.

IGI member submission 9 Feb 1753 at Peterborough Cathedral, Northants. Bobitham White & Dinah Harris. If they were my ancestors I'd look hard at this one.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline Hemmum

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 02 November 13 20:36 GMT (UK) »
What an enormous leap forward a big "thank you!"

I do notice that Francis as a given name really features in the Elms family. Off hunting.

Offline bedfordshire boy

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,239
    • View Profile
Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 02 November 13 21:20 GMT (UK) »
What if James son of John, the non-conformist, decided in 1790 that despite being known as James for the first 30 years of his life, he'd be baptised as Francis. Proving it would be totally impossible, but it would explain his non-conformity, his age could be about right and the place is right. It would leave James of Bolnhurst who died in Wilstead up in the air, but I've never been really comfortable with that one, although I can't see another James who it could have been.

Just a totally off the wall thought

Little Staughton and Keysoe Baptist Church books are the only stones left unturned, and you need to check the microfilms at your nearest LDS Family History Centre.

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell