Peter Sabey of Roxton

[bedfordshire boy]

I'm not falling about laughing at this hypothesis!

What are the facts:

- Francis Sabey was baptised as an adult in 1790, at the same time as he married. The vicar may have insisted on it as he was under target that year, and he'd not have got his performance related bonus if he missed his target. He was said to be aged about 30. If he'd have been asked his age surely he'd have said 30 or 27 or whatever. "About 30" sounds like the vicar's guesstimate.
- on burial his age was given as 67, implying a birth in 1766. Again though, the age is someone else's idea, so may be inaccurate
- he was non-conformist
- he lived in Bolnhurst

Other known facts:
- Francis Elms and Mary Saby single woman of Bolnhurst were about to produce an illegitimate child in May 1767
- if Mary was of another parish Bolnhurst overseers would have removed her to her home parish pretty smartly, so it looks look fairly clear that her parish of legal settlement was Bolnhurst
- Mary Sabey could have been (I know, this isn't a fact!) an unbaptised daughter of John Sabey, a non conformist resident of Bolnhurst, of the Baptist persuasion who didn't do infant baptism
- in 1750 a census was taken in Bolnhurst which showed 8 persons in John Sabey's residence. Thus far I can only identify four, so Mary could well have been another child
- IF Mary Sabey, dau of John, gave birth to an illegitimate son in 1767 he wouldn't have been baptised as they were Baptists, so there'd be no record of him, as there isn't with Francis.
- IF Mary was a member of Keysoe Brook End Baptist Church she'd have been kicked out for fornication. Need to check the church book.
- IF Mary was the one buried in Thurleigh in 1774 and following John's confirmation, I think she was she wouldn't have been mentioned in John's will even if she were his daughter

Whilst hard proof may be impossible to come by, I think a good case can be made for Francis being the illegitimate son of Mary, who in turn was an unbaptised daughter of John the baptist.

And good luck when it comes to finding who John was!

David

[Lynn S]

Just read all todays new info & am liking the illeg. theory. I know proving any of it will be nigh imposs. but you never know !!
Cheers Lynn S

[bedfordshire boy]

Or perhaps to confirm the age of Francis Elms buried 1780 at Bolmhurst Beds.

It would be very unusual to get an age on burial prior to 1813, and if there were then it would be shown on the NBI

[bedfordshire boy]

Just read all todays new info & am liking the illeg. theory. I know proving any of it will be nigh imposs. but you never know !!

Keysoe Brook End Baptist Church book is the most likely place to find any evidence, if indeed there is any

[johnP-bedford]

David, the Thurleigh burial of 23 Nov 1774 is of Mary daughter of "J" Saby of Bolnhurst

[bedfordshire boy]

Brilliant, thanks John. I think you may have given me that one in the past, but I didn't know who it was as there was no baptism, and I'd assumed it was an unbaptised child of John, as opposed to an adult daughter of John. I'd not linked it to the bastardy bond, because I hadn't found the bastardy bond, nor had I thought it could have been a 29-32 year old - but that's what I think it was. Plenty of assumptions but they all centre around this one non-conformist family in Bolnhurst, which makes me think we're on the right track.

When someone said years ago about Francis "Where's the bastard hiding" I should have taken him literally!

Good find Hemmum!

[Hemmum]

 I had the burial Mary Sabey d of J of Bolnhurst burial 23 Nov 1774 and as there did not seem to be a baptism for Mary I wondered if she could be either the daughter of John who was NC or Joseph who was possibly NC. Now it seems that she was probably the d of John the Baptised which does appear to be a 'leap forward' for Francis!

I wonder who bought the poor boy up after his mother died? It does seem strange tat John the baptist did not mention him in his will.

[bedfordshire boy]

There was also possibly another Francis Sabey in Bolnhurst who was born 1706 and baptised 1727.

But you said earlier in your post that this was Francis Elms.

[johnP-bedford]

There was also possibly another Francis Sabey in Bolnhurst who was born 1706 and baptised 1727.

But you said earlier in your post that this was Francis Elms.

David, it is Francis Elms, adult baptised about age 21 on 17 Jun 1727 at Bolnhurst