Author Topic: Peter Sabey of Roxton  (Read 19178 times)

Offline Lynn S

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Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #54 on: Wednesday 06 November 13 16:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi John
Do we have anymore info on John Saby of Backenhoe who married Elizabeth Hull at Wilden such as a d.o.b. ? If they married in 1741 I would think 1720 likely but hey ho you never can tell. Have found Thomas Elms on 1750 Bolnhurst census says churchgoer a Cottager paying 6 to landlord Mr Churchill number of people in house 9 occupation carpenter.
Cheers Lynn S

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Offline bedfordshire boy

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Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #55 on: Wednesday 06 November 13 17:21 GMT (UK) »
Hope I'll do pending John's return

Joseph with his two wives, Mary and Katherine (Berry), had a dozen children in Colmworth, including John baptised on 9 Jan 1715/16. Three of their other children, Joseph, Luke and Catherine ended up in Southill Beds c1730. Unfortunately Southill PR and BT for 1730 is missing, so I don't have marriages for the two men. A John Sabey turned up in neighbouring Northill where he started baptising children in 1739. Once again there's no trace of a marriage. I have always assumed that he was another son of Joseph and Katherine the one baptised in 1716, who followed his half brothers to the Southill area, along with his full sister Catherine who married in Old Warden in 1739.

Which for me has always left the non-conformist John floating, the only Sabey non-conformist of that era that I've been able to identify. Was he connected to the Seelys of Thurleigh? I don't know, but the John born there seems to have died as an infant, and I'd want to see the PR before commenting on the Seely or Seeby debate. But they were still the wrong profession - tailors rather than farmers. Again though, Keysoe Brook End Baptist Church book may shed some light on John.

I have another branch of Sabeys in Henlow, near Southill, where James started baptising children in 1745. Once again I can't trace his marriage, nor where he was from. It seems a coincidence that all these Sabeys should have pitched up in mid Beds within 10 years of each other without there being a connection, but if James is connected to the Colmworth family I haven't found the link

I'm descended from both the Henlow Sabeys and Luke Sabey in Southill. The Bolnhurst lot I've followed mainly for academic interest!

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

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Offline johnP-bedford

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Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #56 on: Wednesday 06 November 13 18:38 GMT (UK) »
I also spotted the John son of Joseph & Katherine Sabey baptised at Colmworth on 09/01/1715. There was another Joseph & Mary Sabey baptising children at Colmworth at same time as son Richard baptised 12 Jun 1720, I have Catherine buried 28/4/1731. As John Sabey married in Wilden who is the Richard Saby, servant who married Rebecca Fox, servant also at Wilden on 26/3/1744. Is he John's brother?
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Partridge - North Beds; Northants & Peterborough
Bishop - Bedford; Hunts, Hemingford Grey
Allen - Hunts, Hemingford Abbotts
Clement - Croydon
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Offline bedfordshire boy

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Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #57 on: Saturday 09 November 13 18:33 GMT (UK) »
Further to the post regarding Richard SABEY I found some newspaper articles which indicate that he was in the Army (not Navy) and lived in Liverpool. It also gives details of his wife (who he married in India) and a daughter and a child of the murder victim.
There is only one Sabey in Liverpool on 1901 Census Mary Sabey born 1874 but in Liverpool not India (a Newsagent).
Louisa Sophia Johnson, the murdered paramour, was born in Cranfield Beds, and it was her sister who moved to Burton Latimer.

In 1891
living at 11 Court K, Bedford St, Leicester St Margaret were
Richard Seaby (on Ancestry as Sealey) head marr 43 Bricklayers lab b Bedford
Mary  Seaby wife 47 b Gibraltar
Clara Seaby dau 12 b Malabar Coast (India)

Also living in Leicester St Margaret, 40 Lower Hill St was
Louisa Johnson boarder single 27 Servant domestic b Cranfield

So Richard and Louisa met in Leicester, skipped off to Liverpool at some time after Apr 1891, had a baby, Richard's wife Mary tracked them down, and it all turned very nasty from then on.

In 1911 Clara Ruth Seaby single 32 b Cannonore (now Kannur) India was living in Wimbledon. She died a spinster in 1945 in Tonbridge, age 67. It looks as though that Sabey branch fizzled out, unless of course you want to look for the Johnson orphan.

It's a quiet Saturday evening here in Carcassonne, my son's gone off with his mother for a long weekend in Barcelona, Monday being Armistice Day, and I had nothing better to do than to look up the murderer!

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline Hemmum

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Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #58 on: Saturday 09 November 13 19:39 GMT (UK) »
Brilliant!!
Its wet here too!

Offline kyliebun

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Re: Peter Sabey of Roxton
« Reply #59 on: Tuesday 11 July 17 17:29 BST (UK) »
Francis Sabey was baptised as an adult in 1790, at the same time as he married. The vicar may have insisted on it as he was under target that year, and he'd not have got his performance related bonus if he missed his target. He was said to be aged about 30. If he'd have been asked his age surely he'd have said 30 or 27 or whatever. "About 30" sounds like the vicar's guesstimate.
On burial his age was given as 67, implying a birth in 1766. Again though, the age is someone else's idea, so may be inaccurate
I agree the 'age about thirty years' stated on Francis Sabey's baptism on 15 Nov 1790 is guesswork, I suspect the vicar told him he wouldn't get married on that date unless he was baptised & the vicar also knowing he was the bastard son of Francis Elms & Mary Saby born just after May 1767. Also with both parents being dead Francis Elms in 1780 & Mary Saby in 1774, plus step mother perhaps Mary ne Hartop buried 1776 who was about to verify his age. If you take his age of 67 at burial on 15 Nov 1790 you get 1766 which tallies near enough to his birth. Who would have given that age at that time? if it was widow Charlotte, would she had said "well he must be as old as I am because we grew up together"  While you feel might be inaccurate, compare this with burial at age 76 on 2 Apr 1843 of his widow Charlotte making her born 1767 which does tally with her birth/baptism, daughter of Rubythan & Eliabeth White.

My conclusion is that Francis Sabey is bastard son of Francis Elms & Mary Saby - but who can prove it, that's another matter.   

I think I can help prove it, or disprove it.  My nephew is a direct descendant of Thomas Sabey (Bolnhurst 1800-1852) in the male line.  If Francis Sabey is Thomas's father (right place, right time, see other forum posts which discuss this) and Francis Elms is Francis's father, then my nephew's Y-DNA will be Elms, not Sabey.  It has been tested and I just need a male Sabey to compare it with, or an Elms.  So if you know of anyone who would be a suitable candidate to test, please let me know.