Author Topic: Help pls deciphering german records  (Read 9711 times)

Offline MattH

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Help pls deciphering german records
« on: Tuesday 08 November 11 04:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi Justin,
I, too, am in need of deciphering help. I'm really a novice at looking at Kurrent as I've been researching more Dutch records and am more used to reading Dutch. I have what I know/can make out listed below and will attach the picture of the baptismal record. This is a sister of one of my Swiss ancestors (Rosina Susanna Schneider). I chose it because the other siblings' records were harder to make out. Thanks for the help!

1839
April 21 ______ _______

Friedrich Schneider Friedrichs Sohn van _____
___ __________ _______ in Thun

Rosina Susana Müller Abrahams dochter __ Thun

___ Thun (?) 1835 Marz 13



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Offline apwright

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Re: Swiss baptismal record help!
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 06:16 GMT (UK) »
1839
April 21
Eine eheliche Rosina Susanna
geboren 22. März
Elt[ern]
Friedrich Schneider Friedrichs Sohn von Stalden
Kg.[=Kirchgemeinde] Münsingen Gärtner in Thun.
Rosina Susanna Müller Abrahams Tochter aus Thun.
Cop[uliert] Thun 1835 März 13.
=======

1839 April 21, legitimate daughter Rosina Susanna born 22 March.
Parents
Friedrich Schneider, Friedrich's son, from Stalden in the parish of Münsingen, smallholder resident in Thun.
Rosina Susanna Müller, Abraham's daughter, from Thun.
Married at Thun in 1835 on March 13.

Stalden (im Emmental) is now part of Konolfingen in the Canton of Bern. It belonged to Münsingen parish until 1911.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konolfingen
http://www.hls-dhs-dss.ch/textes/d/D3290.php

Adrian

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Offline JustinL

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Re: Help pls deciphering Swiss baptism records
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 07:20 GMT (UK) »
Eine eheliche Rosina Susana
Friedrich Schneider, Friedrichs Sohn, von ? geboren 22. März
Kg [Kirchengemeinde] Münsingen, Gärtner in Thun
Rosina Susana Müller, Abrahams Tochter aus Thun
Cops Thun 1835 März 13.


A legitimate Rosina Susana
Parents:   Friedrich Schneider, Friedrich‘s son, from ?, born 22nd March
      Parish of Münsingen, gardener in Thun
      Rosina Susana Müller, Abraham‘s daughter, from Thun
Married Thun 1835 March 13

I can't quite make out Friedrich's place of origin/birth.


Offline apwright

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Re: Help pls deciphering Swiss baptism records
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 07:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi Justin,
He posted this in Deciphering & Recognition too...  ::)
http ://www .rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,565138.new.html#new  Moderator Comment: now merged here

Adrian

P.S. You probably know this (just explaining for MattH's benefit!), but the bar above the N in "Susana" indicates doubling, i.e. n with bar = nn.

Offline JustinL

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Re: Help pls deciphering Swiss baptism records
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 12:41 GMT (UK) »
Hello Adrian,

I did know that, but in my haste to be first to reply I had overlooked it. And, you beat me anyway  >:(

Cheers,

Justin

Offline MattH

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Re: Help pls deciphering Swiss baptism records
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 13:22 GMT (UK) »
Justin and Adrian,
Thank you so much for your help! I look up what a Gärtner was and it said "gardener, nursery man, horticulturalist." That part interests me a lot since I wasn't aware of any of my ancestors having that kind of occupation. I wonder if his father was one as well? I have more Swiss ancestors that I would love for you to help me decipher their records, but let me use this record as a guide to reading Kurrent and then if I get stuck, I'll post here again. Thanks again for your help!

Offline apwright

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Re: Help pls deciphering Swiss baptism records
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 13:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi Matt (welcome to the forum, by the way!)
Although Gärtner does usually mean "gardener, nursery man, horticulturalist" in modern usage, in the context of old German occupations it generally means a smallhold farmer who leased his land from an estate owner. Variations such as Freigärtner, Pachtgärtner, Robothgärtner, Dreschgärtner etc. indicate different sets of obligations with respect to the landowner.
Some explanation here: http://treeclimbingwithsonja.blogspot.com/2010/11/what-is-farmer-i-always-wanted-to-know.html
However, while the above applies to Germany, particularly north-eastern Germany, how far it is applicable to Switzerland I don't know...

Adrian

Offline MattH

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Re: Help pls deciphering Swiss baptism records
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 08 November 11 21:33 GMT (UK) »
Adrian/Justin,
Here are two more records I need help deciphering. The top one is the baptismal record from my fourth great-grandmother, Maria Rothlisberger, who was born in Langnau. The second is from my third great grandmother, Magdalene Messerli. While I'm more interested in understanding the entire record, if all you have time for is to decipher the occupation of the fathers, that's fine with me. Thanks for your time and help!

Offline JustinL

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Re: Help pls deciphering german records
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 09 November 11 07:55 GMT (UK) »
Matt,

Here's a quick response. The place names are the hardest words to read:


Mathys Röthlisberger, Ulrich’s son, from Langnau im Hambühl (no occupation given)

Johannes Messerli, Johann’s son, from here, master carpenter (Zimmermeister)

Justin