Elizabeth Swain/Manitoba

[J.J.]

So the daughter of the immigrant patriarch James appears to not be yours, then...married to George McLeod...I see the marriage in the Kipling files, and there are children listed...
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/METISGEN/2009-10/1256413759

There are so few Swain in the region, you'd think it would come together... You may find out more by looking at his whereabouts around when the first child was born as you say he was not always in the Red River Settlement...However, if it was a marriage of the country then it may never be found...and any other information found now by elimination, still may only be speculation...but I wish you luck with your search.

The HBC archives are fabulous, and the basic details are just that compared to the full files...If you have contacted the HBC and they have many files on your man, a stay in Wpg. would be so interesting for you just to see what he may have bought or delivered that day...what the weather was like at the time, etc...Priceless info. You'll likely find more than what they have on file. A must see for Fur trade descendants. Make sure the archives are open for the duration of your stay, as it takes days to go through it all..& I have found it closed on the odd weekday for various reasons...

I imagine this archive may have the same information...http://www.glenbow.org/collections/search/findingAids/archhtm/sinclair.cfm
http://www.glenbow.org/collections/search/findingAids/archhtm/sinclair.cfm

hate to send you off to another posting, but we probably can't help with this one...Sounds as though he may have been married before once or twice... However there are these others searching as you probably know. I believe I have run into one of them while at the archives...
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=20151216766&topic=14717&post=68463

 

[J.J.]

Betsy was born c.1830 claims the two to be her parents ( Elizabeth Swain was metis) also scrip for Jane George & Mary http://www.rootschat.com/links/0h7g/  http://sunsite.ualberta.ca/Projects/MNC/images/MA/pdf/C14933/C14933_393.pdf  so all those children listed seem to be theirs. She was born in the "North west" so the Territories somewhere.    J.J.
( In other words, the marriage was likely a country one, so no documents...)

[mlkabel]

Once again, Thank You J.J.    

[J.J.]

wish I could help. The fur trade is such a cool era in history!!! Those fellas were tough as nails... J.J.

[vbain]

You can get into the H.B. archives.
http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/archives/research.html
It is very repetitive, but  I did see the Surname Swain.Be persistent.

[vbain]

There are a number of PDF Files regarding Swain at
http://discovery.gov.mb.ca/search?q=swain&entqr=0&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&ud=1&client=manitoba&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&proxystylesheet=manitoba&site=default_collection&x=7&y=8

[mlkabel]

Thank you vbain. I think I will have to try and plan a trip to the HBC archives after I pin point some dates in the mid 1800's. 

[J.J.]

I didn't bother to look at Bakie's HBC basic info as you said you had it, but in it are mentioned the children and the 1870 census, so good thing I did not go do that lookup for you. Please state what you have, as you said the only child you knew of was George, however 1870 has his children listed as Bethsy c.1837, George c.1849, Thomas c.1853, and Nancy c.1855. so altho we found all these for you, you already had them...
So Elizabeth jr./Bethsy was born 12 years or morevbefore the next child? This may be so, and there may have been children between who died...but also this gap could mean the eldest daughter was from a previous coupling for either Baikie or Elizabeth. Without her on a census, we do not know if she was from Saskatchewan or Manitoba....and if only the last three children were hers, might she have been younger than speculated?

You are in a tough era where Cumberland House records are only available starting at 1845 when he'd already left, and the RR census detailing heads of household and number in house/ sometimes no. & gender of children are only available to 1843 just prior to his moving there....There was an 1856 census, but I don't think it was enumerated by personal information
 

[J.J.]

Was Elizabeth  the only one who claimed Elizabeth Swain to be mother?
No...From Scrip docs, I do see there was also a Mary...married a Parke, how old was she?
This could mean that one of the earlier Elizabeth Sinclair buried in St.Andrews or elsewhere could have been a first wife, Eliz. Swain, and if there was a next Elizabeth -she may not have been surname Swain. the others called her Elizabeth Sinclair in their scrip claim.
Sorry to throw you off, but all angles looked at can sometime obtusely come together eventually....I would contact other descendants of these 2 and see if they all have marriage certs for the children to make sure it was surname Swain for mother before moving on...
(I also now note from scrip that Jane=Nancy Folster and remember now that Nancy said her mother was Swain at marriage)

Here is Mary w. 6 children 1881 Lisgar, married to George Park prior to 1870, says born Mb. so likely St.Andrews c. 1848/1849...
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e329/e008210114.jpg

George Folster & Nancy w.2 children 1881 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e329/e008210104.jpg

Elizabeth is hard to find. She said she was 45 in 1875, born N.W....and had children, was on 1870 with father...