Author Topic: Henry Cecil Schwarz - Help Please  (Read 4098 times)

Offline rovert

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Re: Henry Cecil Schwarz - Help Please
« Reply #9 on: Friday 02 December 11 10:47 GMT (UK) »
Valda thank you for your reply.

  I have the majority of what you have given m and  I am waiting for the birth record of Phylis. because on the census she is put down as daughter to Emma.  but  when Phylis married in 1891 she claims her father is James Arthur: deceased.
Daisy baptism show Henry as her father.
 
Cannot find Henry Cecil on any census records.  A mystery ?
Judd - Croydon Surrey<br />Venner, Coote - Beckenham, West Wickham, Bromley Kent<br />Shepston -  Westminster London Middlesex, Bristol<br />Knight - Deane & Andover Hampshire<br />Bull - Chimney sweeps, south of England<br />Bowles - Winterbourne Gunner & PlaitfordWiltshire<br />Kirby - Kings Somborne Hampshire<br />Winter - Plaitford & Landford Wiltshire<br />Arter - Plaitford & Sherfield English Hampshire<br />Clark - Hayling Island Hampshire<br />Pink - Hinton Ampner Hampshire & West Witteri

Offline Valda

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Re: Henry Cecil Schwarz - Help Please
« Reply #10 on: Friday 02 December 11 16:27 GMT (UK) »
Hi

When Phyllis married in 1908 her mother was already dead. If she had never known her father she may have assumed her brother was named for him. Henry might not appear on an English census because he wasn't present in the country when one was taken, arriving after the 1881 census and leaving before the 1891 census. On Cecilia's 1902 marriage the deceased description for her father may merely have been for propriety's sake the family not knowing whether he was deceased or not or deceased as far as they were concerned.

Children of a married woman are always presumed to be the legitimate children of the marriage and might be registered or baptised as such (it doesn't require two parents to be present at a baptism, or any for that matter as far as an adult baptism is concerned).

However Henry Cecil doesn't sound particularly Germanic so it may have been Anglicised.


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline avm228

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Re: Henry Cecil Schwarz - Help Please
« Reply #11 on: Friday 02 December 11 17:15 GMT (UK) »
The gap betwen the births of Cecilia Grace ("Gracie" per 1891) in 1884 and Daisy in 1889 makes me wonder whether Henry left sometime during that period (the later children then being fathered by persons unknown). Emma was enumerated as "married" in both the 1891 and 1901 censuses but may have been deserted. On the other hand her husband may simply have been away at the relevant times but otherwise still part of the household.

One H.C.R. Schwarz, a cattle dealer aged 27, sailed Liverpool-New York on the Etruria, landing 12 July 1886. He was an American citizen; last place of residence was London.

His age gives an estimated DOB of 1859, consistent with his having been 24 upon marriage in 1883.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline rovert

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Re: Henry Cecil Schwarz - Help Please
« Reply #12 on: Friday 02 December 11 21:10 GMT (UK) »
Valda, again thank you for your post.  when reading it from another point of view it often  puts another lean on the situation , which of course  is completely freezable. Hopefully the birth cert of Phylis can shed some light on who her father is, (or maybe not ) lol


 avm228,  I congratulate you.  where on earth did you find that entry.  I have been searching for weeks .and haven,t come remotely close.   Thank you for your assistance.
Judd - Croydon Surrey<br />Venner, Coote - Beckenham, West Wickham, Bromley Kent<br />Shepston -  Westminster London Middlesex, Bristol<br />Knight - Deane & Andover Hampshire<br />Bull - Chimney sweeps, south of England<br />Bowles - Winterbourne Gunner & PlaitfordWiltshire<br />Kirby - Kings Somborne Hampshire<br />Winter - Plaitford & Landford Wiltshire<br />Arter - Plaitford & Sherfield English Hampshire<br />Clark - Hayling Island Hampshire<br />Pink - Hinton Ampner Hampshire & West Witteri


Offline rovert

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Re: Henry Cecil Schwarz - Help Please
« Reply #13 on: Monday 26 December 11 10:42 GMT (UK) »
can I please have this subject linked to the USA board,  Thankyou
Judd - Croydon Surrey<br />Venner, Coote - Beckenham, West Wickham, Bromley Kent<br />Shepston -  Westminster London Middlesex, Bristol<br />Knight - Deane & Andover Hampshire<br />Bull - Chimney sweeps, south of England<br />Bowles - Winterbourne Gunner & PlaitfordWiltshire<br />Kirby - Kings Somborne Hampshire<br />Winter - Plaitford & Landford Wiltshire<br />Arter - Plaitford & Sherfield English Hampshire<br />Clark - Hayling Island Hampshire<br />Pink - Hinton Ampner Hampshire & West Witteri

Offline Valda

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Re: Henry Cecil Schwarz - Help Please
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 27 December 11 15:55 GMT (UK) »
Hi

The topic on the American board

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,572615.0.html

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline rovert

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Re: Henry Cecil Schwarz - Help Please
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 27 December 11 16:24 GMT (UK) »
Thankyou Valda
Judd - Croydon Surrey<br />Venner, Coote - Beckenham, West Wickham, Bromley Kent<br />Shepston -  Westminster London Middlesex, Bristol<br />Knight - Deane & Andover Hampshire<br />Bull - Chimney sweeps, south of England<br />Bowles - Winterbourne Gunner & PlaitfordWiltshire<br />Kirby - Kings Somborne Hampshire<br />Winter - Plaitford & Landford Wiltshire<br />Arter - Plaitford & Sherfield English Hampshire<br />Clark - Hayling Island Hampshire<br />Pink - Hinton Ampner Hampshire & West Witteri

Offline Snoozethewooze

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Re: Henry Cecil Schwarz - Help Please
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 01 October 15 16:32 BST (UK) »
Hello.  My maternal grandmother was Grace Cecilia de Rosemont Schwarz and I too am try to find Henry Cecil.  Have you found anymore information? My mother has done  a DNA test and am waiting for the results.  Have you done a DNA test?  I have asked a genealogist to help me with this search and she too has drawn a blank.  We think that he was Henry Cecil living in Rosemont in the States.