Strood, Kent, Poor Law Union

[Pedropepper]

Hi

Indeed you are correct Pete here. Just had a reply from Westminster Achieves. Alas, the address of the Westminster Boys Home of 26 Gr St Peter St was inaccurate as 26 relates to the CofE Church. A friend of mine is in Kew today and she is hoping to obtain a copy from Grandfather's WW1 release/discharge papers from mircofiche as opposed to the on-line version available. From memory there is more on the mircofiche record.

Seems Herbert joined the Army at age 17.
Again cannot find Birth Records for either Herbert of Reginald  in Canada..
I did find a Herbert Elliot from the London Regt on the memorial wall at Tyne-Cot cemetery in Ypres. Not sure if this is a runner that i have yet to progress.

Looks like you are right with your Canadian hunch.

Suspect you have already established that Paul Hotzman's parents were immigrant's from Germany 1860's think 1862. Looks like they were German Jews. 

Not sure how far you have managed with Canadian archives.

Before Mum was overcome by memory loss, she did allude to the fact that Reginald's Mother's maiden first name was Carmeletta. Surname unknown.

I've often felt I was just one piece of information from actually nailing this part of the family history. Yet at every turn I have been foiled.

Keep in touch.

Pete

[casalguidi]

I keep looking at this .......... wanting to try and help

So, we are looking for a Reginald Patrick Tarleton ELLIOTT died in the Bath district 1957 age 59 so born between Oct 1897 and Oct 1898 if the age is correct.  He married in the Bath district 1919 so I agree that the WW1 service record for Reginald Patrick ELLIOTT is most likely his as it gives addresses in Bath on discharge.  27 Mar 1917 Reginald Patrick ELLIOTT gives his age as 19 years thus born between March 1897 and March 1898.

May I ask just what information you had on Reginald Patrick before you started researching?  Is the sole source of Reginald Patrick's father being Frederick William ELLIOTT, a rancher, from his marriage certificate?  If so, could this be a total red herring?  If Reginald had been "in care" from a very young age there is every possibility that he may not have exactly known the correct details about his father?

Was there any word of Reginald having any siblings before mention of brother Herbert ELLIOTT was found on his WW1 record?

Have you had any luck with the records for the Farningham Home for Little Boys?  How did you know he was in the Strood Union?

Sorry so many questions but just trying to get a clearer picture and to separate the known facts from the many possibles.

Casalguidi

[martytriple]

Casalguidi

Thanks for showing so much interest.

Most of what you have said is correct.

The only mention of Frederick William Elliot Rancher is on the marriage certificate therefore that is why I am so reluctant to take this as granted as you say could be a complete red herring. I have researched F W Elliot and have found no other connections in reverse so to speak. I have a lot of info on him and his family.

The Farningham home records I have show him as coming from the Strood Union Workhouse, there are no other details of parents etc. Yes Herbert was only mentioned in his WW1 records as next of kin, but the Farningham Home records do show a Herbert Elliot being admitted on the same day, so again this is a reasonable assumption that they are brothers.

One other assumption I have made based on the WW1 record and knowing what RPT Elliot did was that this is him in the Farningham Home. He was a shoemaker ( the home record shows he worked in shoe making twice duing his stay). He was a very accomplished band instrument player and was the band master later in life for the Boys Brigade in Bath. He was also an accomplished artist. All of these attributes are typical of boys who were in the Home.

So that's where we are at the moment, no birth certificate and nothing found in the 1901 census so far.

Martyn

[martytriple]

Sorry one other piece of useful info is that both Reginald and Herbert were in St Nicholas School (Herbert for for 2 years 3 mths and Reginald 2 years) whilst in the Strood Workhouse.

They were admitted to Farningham Home on 27th July 1904, so they would probably not be on the 1901 census in the Strood Workhouse.

Herbert left the home on 21 June 1909 to a farm in West Wales, I have confirmed this on the 1911 census, but not traced him beyond that.

Martyn

[casalguidi]

Ok, so I might be throwing a spanner in the works here or it may be completely a different family but I've found a family with a  Reginald and Bertie (Herbert?) of the right age in the right area and I can't elimate them. 

1901 High Street, Upnor, Frindsbury

Frederick BANKS head mar 34 cement lab b.Notting Hill London
Catherine wife 20 b.Rochester Kent
Frederick son 10 b.Strood
Bertie son 8 b.Strood
Minnie dau 6 b.Greenwich
Reginald son 3 b.Greenwich
John son 3m b.Upnor
RG13/719 folio 106 page 5
..................

Frederick senior appears to be in Rushenden/Sheerness, Minster, Sheppey for the 1911 census with children John (as above) and two further children ............ Walter and Felix.  Frederick age 41 b.Enston (sic)? London, Walter 6 b.Frindsbury, Felix 2 b.Frindsbury, John 10.  See the free indexes at http://www.familysearch.org and http://www.1911census.co.uk/

It appears to be quite a fractured family with a number of possible wives/mother:

1)  Frederick Valentine BANKS baptised bp 14 Jul 1892 Strood son of Frederick Valentine and Eliza.   He appears to die 1973 Liverpool (birth date given as 2 Jul 1892) and birth registered as Frederick Valentine BANKS.

2)  Bertie ............. possible birth registration Herbert William BANKS June quarter 1894 Strood?

3)  Minnie .............. possible birth registration Minnie Fay BANKS June quarter 1895 Greenwich?

4)  Reginald Alfred BANKS baptised Christ Church, East Greenwich 31 March 1898 son of Frederick Valentine BANKS and Minnie.

5) John ............ possible birth registration John Henry V BANKS March quarter 1901 Strood?  Possibly marries Elizabeth G TUCKER 1924 Wiltshire and died 1988 Somerset (birth given as 16 Dec 1900).

6)  Walter ............ possible birth registration Walter George R BANKS December quarter 1905 Strood.  Married Edna P BRITTENDEN 1928 Sheppey and possibly died 1947 Battle registration district.

7)  Felix .............. possible birth registration Felix Alexander BANKS September quarter 1908 Strood.  Married Nellie BARBER 1934 Medway and died 2002 Medway (birth given as 6 Jul 1908)

A Frederick V BANKS dies on Sheppey 1912 age 43 but I couldn't see him in the transcript of the Half Way Cemetery http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~penney/cemetary/cemetary.htm

He Looks to have married Catherine UPTON in the December quarter 1901 Medway district but I couldn't immediately see a marriage in the registers for Chatham/Gillingham/Rochester etc. on Medway Cityark.

Like I said, it may be nothing but I would maybe like to eliminate this family as the children Bertie (Herbert?) and Reginald aren't readily identifiable after the 1901 census ....... and it's the nearest I can find at present

Casalguidi

[martytriple]

Thanks again.

I need to absorb all this but I did contact Medway Archives about the Strood Workhouse some time ago and received this which may put further light on things with another pair of eyes. Hopefully.

Quote

1902 March 6th Bertie Elliott age 9 born 1893 from Strood Intra
1902 March 6th Minnie Elliott age 6 born 1896 from Strood Intra
 
I'm assuming Bertie and Minnie are related as their names are together in the register, but there are no parents names with them or any other information in the admission register to give further information regarding their situation. This is the only Elliott with a name close to Herbert that I could find, in fact during the time span you are interested in I could only find 3 individuals with the surname Elliott, of course Bertie may not be the person you are looking for, he may not have been sent to the workhouse. I did however find an individual called Reginald, so I assume this is the person you are researching;
 
1902 Aug 11 Reginald Elliott age 4 born 1898 from Strood Intra.
 
The three names were listed at the end of the register with everyone else still resident in the workhouse one year later. I went to the end of the register and did not find evidence of them being discharged, I hope this helps you with your research,

Unquote

Martyn

[casalguidi]

Hmmmm ............. very interesting!  So the three BANKS children that I can't follow forward are "Bertie", Minnie and Reginald.  Three children with the same forenames and ages are admitted to the Strood Union in 1902 with the surname ELLIOTT.  It would be very coincidental that there are three siblings with these correct forenames and ages in the same area at the same time wouldn't it

Casalguidi

[martytriple]

Yes , my thoughts at the moment are that they had possibly been living with an Elliot family prior to going to the Workhouse as my cousin stated in an earlier post that they were placed there by a Mrs Elliot so it could have been assumed they were Elliots also !!

Martyn

[casalguidi]

It doesn't look like they were left on a temporary basis with so little information given does it?  Bertie, at 9, would have been old enough to know his surname I would have thought though?  I wonder where Frederick Valentine b1892 was at that time then ......... interesting that he kept his own surname too.  Lots of mystery!

I think the BANKS' are definitely worth investigating further for the minute then.  This looks like it could be Frederick senior in 1891:

1891 5 Ruby's Place, Rochester St Nicholas, Kent

Frederick BANKS head mar 23 cement lab b.Dalston London
Eliza wife 22 b.Chatham Kent
RG12/656 folio 42 page 16.

I did note that Felix lived to a grand old age ............... wouldn't it be wonderful if his family could shed some light on his older siblings if, of course, he was actually aware of their existance?

Just hope I'm not sending you down a blind alley

Casalguidi