Humphrey Jones born 1824 Barmouth, grocer

[despair]

I feel sure that the person you have been in touch with has drawn the wrong conclusion about Mary Ann Humphreys,wife of Edward Humphreys.
The only marriage between an Edward Humphreys and Mary Humphreys is in Newtown Montgomeryshire which makes no sense.
Further,I have traced the couple concerned and both die within a year of each other,1895-6,at  Clwyd Street,Ruthin where they are last seen on the 1891 census(RG11  5522  73  2)

The mistake,if such it be,I suspect,revolves around the 1861 census,where,I believe Mary Ann Davies(nee Humphreys-as per my previous post) is identified only as Mary Ann(no surname,as per the original document) in one major database,and mistakenly ascribed the surname Edward of the person she is a servant to,in another(RG09  4320  57  18)

This same person,Griffith Edward(s) is a lodger with the re-united couple at Graig Fach,Llanaber in 1871(RG10  5692  15  22).William Davies was a widower when he married Mary Humphreys in 1860,so some of the children look like they might relate to the previous marriage.
I think William Davies himself may be in Manchester in the 1861 census(RG09  2948  87  29),but I have not located any of the children given as born before 1861.

I trust you will form your own conclusions before deciding whether to relay my suspicions to your contact.

Regards
Roger

[Humphpaul]

Dear Roger, Thanks for that explanation re Mary Ann. I have not done the research myself so I am now glad I did not put it in my tree.
If I ever get sorted out with Mary ? 1803 the wife of William H I may try to follow it through too.
Thanks for all your help. I will let you know if any progress. Alan

[despair]

Some speculation to consider:
Humphrey,the grocer,appears at other times to be Humphrey the boatman.I assume you have them,but in reverse order the census references are

1891  4642  127  36  (2,Aber Place)  "Boatman"
1881  5547  7  8        (1,Aber Place)  "Grocer + C"
1871  5692  5  2        (High Street,Llanaber) "Grocer & Baker"

In 1861,solely based on the presence of the son John(1860) indicating the same family,his wife Jane,given as a "seaman's wife" may be at

1861  4320  56  15  (Glanaber Street,Barmouth)
and maybe Humphrey at
1861  2738  50  1  (West Derby,Lancashire--"Jane and Elizabeth" Smack Coasting)
Similar name to William's vessel,but Humphrey is given as born Penryn,Merionethshire.

However,if the Jane above is correct,the presence of a daughter Ann Lloyd Jones,suggests the marriage is Humphrey Jones/Jane Lloyd in 1854.
The father of this Humphrey Jones is given as John Jones,mariner.

There is a John Jones,mariner,with wife Jane,"next door but one" to Mary Humphreys in the 1871 census and "on the rock" in 1861

1871  5692  22   36
1861  4320  53  10

If these are Humphrey's parents and the term "nephew" has it's current narrow definition,Mary Humphreys(married name),should be sister to one of these.As Jane is given as born Trawsfynydd,perhaps it is more likely that she is the sister of John  Jones(Barmouth)

I can find one such possible combination that could fit the bill:-
John(1794) and Mary(1803 or 1804) born Llanaber to Lewis Jones and Gwen his wife.

Obviously all very speculative,and still no marriage of William Humphreys to Mary(Jones?) that makes any sense.

Regards
Roger

[Humphpaul]

Dear Roger. Thanks for all that brilliant work as it does fit very well.
I have not done anymore since 5th. Jan as I sent off for the marr. cert for 1854 and am hoping that will confirm his father's first name and occupation and address etc.
The wife I hope is Jane Lloyd as you say as she has the same page and number and she was in the 1851 census a a servant nearby.
Then I hope I can trace back and find connection in the PRs. I will let you know when I have the cert.
Thanks, Alan
 

[Humphpaul]

Hello again Roger, I now have the marr. cert. but it's not a lot of help.

It was on 26/12/1854 at Llanaber Church. Humphrey bachelor 31 mariner, Jane Lloyd spinster 30.

Both just have Barmouth as residence. Fathers were John Jones mariner and Edward Lloyd shoe maker. Witnesses John Jones and Ann Lloyd.

So I think I will need to go to Dolgellau RO to trawl the records as I cannot find any link on the net up to now.

I will work on the hope that John Jones (the father) may be Mary's brother or cousin.

In the book by Lewis Lloyd there is a John Jones 1781 - 1861 ex Royal Navy who lived at Tyddyn Du, Llanaber who could fit in as father of Mary and John.

Also there is a Humphrey Jones 1823/24 - 1898 who was cox of the Barmouth lifeboat which could fit in with his job. All very interesting I hope. Bye for now Alan

[despair]

The Humphrey Jones reference looks very interesting.The Humphrey identified so far in the censuses does die in 1898 and one of his occupation descriptions says "grocer + c",perhaps "grocer + cox"?
Does it give any biographical details?

Regards
Roger

[Humphpaul]

Dear Roger. Just to update you on my latest hopeful punt at Mary Humphrys nee name.

As Humphrey Jones born 1823 is her nephew and I cannot find a Mary Jones born about 1801 to fit, I tried to see if the nephew status came from his mother's side.

Humphreys father John Jones may have married a Jane David 28/10/1820 in Llanaber who, if she was Mary's sister would make the nephew claim OK. Also on 20/06/1806 a Mary David was bapised to Joseph David and wife ? (unreadable) in Llanaber.

So now I am trying to find a sister Jane. That's the state of play so far but it is still all conjecture.

Cheers Alan

[despair]

Thanks for the update.I'll see what I can find along your line of enquiry.

Regards
Roger

[despair]

I haven't quite managed to "get back up to speed" at the moment,so apologies if this is wide of the mark, but I thought the following might be of interest.The dates make the individuals look young for the events,but perhaps just plausible(baptism dates not birth date?)

Jane David 9 Jan 1803 Ebenezer,Dinas Mawddwy   David Jones and Jane
Mary David 4 Nov 1806                  Ditto

These are obviously patronymic names,otherwise Mary and Jane Jones?

Regards
Roger