Settle family- halifax,hipperholme,Brighouse

[Lindyboo]

Hi Rose

Wendy has just sent you the info on the 1851 - pipped me at the post there!  However, as you see, there are no Settles listed.

On the IGI I have found a reference to an Alfred Settle baptized 1831 in Rastrick to Ann Settle, who presumably was unmarried.  She may be - looking at the IGI which of course must be checked against the actual entries - the daughter of Luke Settle.  She was baptized in Lightcliffe in 1812.

I'll dig a bit more and let you know if I find anything.  So far however, nothing has shown on the 1851 - I had a look on 'familyhistoryonline' as you may have already done and no Alfred Settle is listed in Hx for that census.  I also checked the index for Hipperholme-cum-Brighouse and the only Settles listed, in addition to Luke and Jubal as previously mentioned are: Bathsheba 39; Hannah 41; Joseph 47; Sarah 34.

Lindy

[Lindyboo]

Hi Rose

I think we have a result and a connection.  On re-examining the 1841 entry for Luke Settle at Slead Syke, Brighouse, I find in the household Alfred, age 9 - not 7 as previously said.  His mother is not listed, but I suspect this must be your man. 

If so, it looks as though Ann was Luke's daughter and Alfred was taken to live with his grandfather. 

The IGI lists only the one Alfred, as mentioned in my previous reply, bapt 1831, so if it's correct I think it backs up him being Luke's grandson. 

Also, if this is the right bod, (assuming you can confirm it to your satisfaction) you might want to give the letters to the Trustees who run the 'Mrs Sunderland Musical Festival' annually in Huddersfield.  If you've not heard of it, it's quite prestigious and there is, I believe, a special award in the name of Luke Settle, so I think they'd be thrilled to have the letters you mention.  And come to mention it - I'd be glad of copies for my own family history, since Mrs Sunderland and Luke Settle were so closely associated.

Please do get back to me if you think any of the above what you're looking for and I'll give you more info on the Mrs Sunderland angle.

Regards
Lindy 

[woodydog]

Wow - lots to take in there! You could be right- well I hope so anyway.
I'll have a really good look through the transcriptions that I made of some of the letters & see if it sheds any further light on the matter- I'll also try to look at the other letters that I never got round to transcribing (they can be very difficult to read with quite a few gaps where folds have been in the paper!)
The Mrs Sunderland music festival- I think my niece took part in that- I picked her up from a music festival that was at the town hall one year- I'll have to check with my sister.
Thank you for all your help so far
Bear with me everyone......
Rose

[woodydog]

Hello everyone - sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you all- I've been waiting to get hold of the letters that I didn't transcribe but my mum & dad are away on holiday so no luck as yet. I keep swinging between "they've got him!" to "ermm, I'm not sure about this!"
I've had a good look through the letters I have & have picked out any relevant bits (if your not bored out of your brains by now!!)
1 Dated 26 Sept 1858- best respects to the family, especially my grandfather-Could be Luke if he lived with him?
2.Son Romeo born 1859 (somewhere around Jan/Feb/March - so he must have been in Yorkshire approx 9 months earlier!!!!
3.Dated Feb 24 1859- Alfred mentions the death of his brother George & also the death of Aunt Marthas son James.
4. dated Feb 24 1859- apologies to brother William for bearing all the blame belonging to the loan & that he will pay him for his trouble going to Leeds
5. dated March 22 1859- saddened to hear that his wife & children had been in the unionhouse & she was getting a shilling per head fro the children but nothing for herself!
6. dated 24 June 1859- ask forgiveness of my mother Fanny
7. dated 6th November 1859- pleased to hear that sister Betty got married (the devil doesn't say who to !!)

Does anyone think that from the 1841 info for Luke Settle at Slead Syke that Jubal & Martha could be married or is it impossible to tell? I ask because I also have the following written in pencil at the front of an old prayer book that also came from my step grandmother.

John Smith born December 15 1792- evening 7pm
Ann Smith born November 29 1824 2pm
Mary Smith born May 24 1821- 2.43(!!) afternoon
Martha Smith born May 29 1826-3.15 afternoon
Samuel Smith born November 27 1829 3. morning
Susy Smith born May 20 1831- 5 afternoon
Mary Smith born June 7 (?) 1776 -morning
Suse Smith born November 26 1778- morning 10 O'clock
Betty Smith born May 25 1781 evening 7pm
Anne Smith born 26 August 1788 -morning 6
Hannah Smith born Dec 25 1786 -evening
Martha Smith born January or July 26 1788 Eve 6
Rachele Smith born Aug 22 1790 evening 9

Could be one & the same Susy!

For now I'll get off & continue to try & sort this all out in my head!!!!!
Rose

[Lindyboo]

Hello again

Just read your latest posting.  I'll have a dig around and see if I can find anything, but in the meantime could you clarify, re the notations in the prayer book, where the Smith children listed may have been born?  Hannah Smith, 1786, jumps out at me as this is the same year of birth of the Hannah Smith who married James Sykes, father of Susannah Sykes (later Sunderland), ergo my 4x g/grandmother.  I know the name is very common of course, but you never know …

At present I don't think that Jubal was married, since he appears on later census listing still resident with his father and – though I need to double check this – remained unmarried.

Also, at the end of your posting you mention 'this could be one and the same Susy'.  Sorry to be dense, but which Susy do you refer to?

Regards
Lindy

[Lindyboo]

Me again.  Re Jubal.  Yes, he was married, but not to Martha.  He wed Helen Havelock, found on FreeBMD in Jun qtr 1852.  On the 1861 he's found as head of household with the following:

Ellen (wife) 36
Luke (father) 83
Isabella Havlock (niece) 8
Lizzy Hannah (niece) 6

The various census and FreeBMD ref's I've been examining frequently throw up some names which are linked to my Sykes family, though I've not yet been able to establish the connections.  Wilkinson seems to crop up often as one of the families which may have married into mine and which appears to have married into the Settle family as well.  Common name of course and may be only coincidences. 

Will keep digging.

Lindy

[Lindyboo]

You'll be getting fed up with me by now perhaps, but I thought you might be interested in this link http://www.area5.co.uk/holmfirth/historyman/greatwar/crimeanwarveteran.htm

I've also found that Luke Settle (ie, Alfred's son) married a Martha Freeman.

All for now.

[woodydog]

Sorry Lindyboo - I got side tracked by my friends ancestor who had the good grace to be famous by being a policeman & being killed in Manchester in 1867- how much information has come flooding in !!!??

Anyway back to the Setlte/Smiths-
The Susy I refer to is the Susy in Wendy/Winstons posting from the 1851 census which coincides with the pencil scribblings. The reason I ask about Martha & Jubal is because of Alfred refering to an Aunt Martha & vaguely hoping we can tie the Settle's to the Smith's that way- I'm beginning to wonder if Alfred travelled to America as a Smith to avoid whatever he was avoiding!!

I'll go & check out the web link you've given me - TTFN-Rose XX

[woodydog]

Hello everyone- just a little bit of an update on this one!
I've checked the letters again and on close examination there is mention of "brother Jubal & brother George" being sick- there can't be many Jubal Settles floating round Hipperholme can there!so I think you all managed to get the link between Alfred & Luke Settle bang on! I've searched & searched Ellis Island & Castle gardens site & the only vague possibility I can come up with for Alfreds arrival is as follows:
Alfred THORNTON- age 28- miner- arrived 15 Sept 1858- origin England, Liverpool- the reason for this is that from the letters I know that Alfred was travelling with a William Thornton & on the same boat is a Wiiliam Thornton- age 28- farmer, so maybe Alfred travelled under a different surname!
I've also got the connection from my step grandma to Alfred...
His eldest son James had a daughter (Sarah Ellen born 1877) , she married an Arthur Smith in 1907 and they had my step nan- hurrah...
As for finding Alfred in the 1851 census... well I've still had no luck, no luck on a marriage to a Mary unknown, so all I still have is his baptism in Rastrick in 1831(oops forgot the 1841 census- you found that) and then the letters starting in 1858- elusive devil he is!!!!
That's it for now- just thought you all might like to hear about whats gone on after all your wonderful work on tracking the little bleeder!
Thanks again
Woodydog