Mary Morgan and son Griffith, Llanddeiniolen

[Huwcyn]

I wonder if anyone can help me sort out some relationships for the above two.
Mary Morgan was born on 21st July. 1830 , being the daughter of Dafydd Morgan .

This is what I can find of her in adulthood ( Find my past is the census sources)

1851 : Hafod Olau , living with parents

1861 (name mistranscribed as Margan) : Hafod Olau , living with widowed father and a chap called Robert Rowlands , described as her father's grandson. ( Wrongly , I believe)

I assume she is the same person as found in :

1871 : New Street , Deiniolen/Ebenezer , living with Griffith Morgan (b 1865 ) described as son , and Jane Roberts ( b 1870) , described as daughter . Still with surname of Morgan though .

1881 : Battery buildings, Llanddeiniolen , living with son , now called Griffith Morgan Davies , and daughter Jane . Now called Mary Roberts .

I think she died the same year , and was buried in Macpellah in Deiniolen under the name Mary Morgan , with no mention of anyone except her father . It refers to her being from Pen Y Ffridd , but I cannot see where that fits in .

I cannot find any mention or trace of a father to Griffith or to Jane

Griffith then picks up the enigma baton, and I cannot find him on FindMyPast in 1891.
In 1901  he is almost certainly in the Conwy area , as a postman. I think he married a lady called Catherine Mary Jones , who is (of course) described by one name in 1901 , and the other later on
 . There is also a chap described as a son, Thomas Morgan Jones , b 1887 . They seem to have married in 1891 , but he has a different surname , and was born 4 years prior to the marriage .

I'd be grateful if anyone could suggest any answers to the numerous riddles above.

[garethgriffiths]

Huw
This is from a birth certificate dated 30 July 1925 issued in Conway.
Why it has this date of issue we can decide later.

This is uncle morgan's WIFE.

Born 17/9/1864 Lliwdy Caerhun
Catherine Mary Jones
dau of William Jones, slate quarrier
dau of Margaret Jones formerly Thomas
the father signed his mark x as informant
registered on 11?10/1864.

I have done some research on Lliwdy.
Gareth

[garethgriffiths]

Huw
This next certificate is dated issued in Carnarvon on 1 June 1921
we can decide why later.

1865 (?) could have been overwritten from 1862
Birth in Sub District of Llanrug (my uncle Bob RE Williams was a vicar their yrs later).
Born 26 July 1862 (0r 1865?)
at Hafodoleu Llandeiniolen
Griffith, boy
fathers name Morgan W (different colour ink may be addition later)
Mothers name Mary Morgan
Father occupation joiner (different ink again)
informant Mary Morgan mother Hafodoleu Llandeiniolen
registered 17/Aug/1862 (again maybe overwritten)
Gareth
pS I do have a photo of uncle and auntie morgan together

[garethgriffiths]

Huw
I have 1851 Morgan at Hafodoleu
1871 at 11 New Street, Ebeneezer, Llandeiniolen
1901 at 6 Sea View Terrace Llandrillo yn rhos
1911 at 7 Sea View Terrace Conway

He was also on the Burma road to Mandalay
My father tells me Griffith Morgan lied about his age to get into the army as a bugle boy
BMD beta index showed he was born Carnarvon district Sept Qtr 1865
Vol 11b page 484
Possibly altered his birth cert by 3 yrs to get into army.
 Gareth

[garethgriffiths]

Huw
I have a copy of his his death cert too, issued at my request dated 1995!

died 30 Sept 1951 at General Hospital, Llandudno
Griffith Morgan, male aged 87 (this gives born about 1864)
of Fern Bank, Ferndale Road, Llanrhos, Conway UD, a retired postman
(note Fern Bank was my grandparents house and can be seen to left of old postcard on some popular sale sites to the left of the Station Hotel LL Junction)

cause of death
cardiac failure
anterioslerosis (?)
enlarged prostrate

informant was my grandmother CM Griffiths, niece, Fern Bank, Ferndale Road.
my dad lived here and he is barely still with us at present.

death registered 1 Oct 1951
Gareth
 

[garethgriffiths]

Huw
Original 1892 marriage certificate in my possession.

Married 30 June 1892
Griffith Morgan aged 26 yrs bachelor, postman, of 5 Park Rd Terrace Colwyn Bay, Llandrillo yn Rhos, father name Thomas Morgan farmer (now there's a difference!)

Wife Catherine Mary Jones, age 27 yrs Widow(!!) of 3 Bull Cottages, Conway, her father was Thomas Jones, Mariner.
witnessed by John Jones and Ann(?) Jane Roberts.

Griffith Morgan signed but x the mark of Catherine Mary Jones.
Gareth

[garethgriffiths]

Huw
In my notes I have Tommy Morgan born 1887
living in 1911 census at 5 Sea View Terrace Conway, working as a plumber
he must be alive in 1891 census somewhere (?)

Tommy was a stationers assisitant in 1901
at 6 Sea View Terrace Conway as Thomas M Jones b 1887 Conway
so he was born before before they married (which you noted too).

Auntie Morgan was married before but who too?
I have possibly a Peter Jones from my research but dont have certificate and the name Jones confuses this).  Do you know more of this?
Gareth

[Huwcyn]

In the 1881 census , there is a Peter Jones (Fisherman) and 4 children plus one grandson  living at '19, village of Gyffin , Gyffin' .
He is a widower , born in Llandudno in 1821. He would , obviously, be an awful lot older than Catherine Mary Jones if he is the one she married circa 1886 . However, I suspect that there is some circumstantial evidence that he is Thomas Jones's father . The fact that there is a marriage around this time of a Peter Jones to a Catherine Mary Jones in Gyffin is possibly the strongest pointer .
I cannot find him in 1891 , suggesting that he might also be the Peter Jones who died in 1889 in the area (The ages would correspond quite closely ) .

[garethgriffiths]

Huw
I spoke to my father today about Tommy Morgan, he was an excellent trumpet player in Conwy Town Band which may explain why I have a photo of the old town band in my collection.

About 1939 he recollects that Tommy Morgan had two second hand shops one in Wrexham and the other in an Old Odeon Cinema complex in Oswestry.  (Can anyone help here by offering suggestions please?)

Dad thinks he is buried somewhere in the Whitchurch area and after his death his wife sold the businesses, she was said to like a drink and nothing was ever heard from her again.  We need to be careful here as we are getting towards todays generations so as not to offend any future readers.
He cant recollect her name or where they ever got married.
I do have an army photo of Tommy Morgan.

Dad did attend Griffith Morgans funeral in 1951 and years later when we were looking for their grave near where he recollected it, we found we were leaning on the very grave we had been looking for.  It is right at the bottom row, the grave is leaning now but that was already leaning too that day!

I wonder if he got married as Thomas Morgan or Thomas Morgan Jones and where?

regards Gareth