Author Topic: Toni*’s OH Sc Hunt part 9  (Read 34319 times)

Offline toni*

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Toni*’s OH Sc Hunt part 9
« on: Thursday 15 December 11 10:03 GMT (UK) »
Continued from part 8
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=453286.new

So where are we at now?

Annie Susan Cullmer is proving to be a bit of a mystery in regards to her disappearance / death

She married in 1859 to Alfred Urwin
They had a daughter Georgette in I think 1858 if her age from the census is to be believed
Followed by 1860 Alfred James 
And in 1866 Rosina Sarah
(was there a daughter Ann / Annie Susan too I think there was)
Sometime in between this there was another daughert Elizabeth Selina although no birth registartiion is found she was baptised 11 May 1866 with Alfred James and Rosina Sarah.
In 1868 banns were read between Alfred Urwin and Sarah Skidmore nee Hudson and they married a year after these banns on 10 May 1869 it appears with the blessing of Annie Susans family as they were witnesses
Alfred & Sarah had more children we can more or less follow all of them through the census to death.
But we can’t find Annie Susans death or any other record other than the christening of Elizabeth Selina

working on the basis that maybe Alfred James might prove to be a clue as in 1871 he is not with his father on the census, in fact we cannot find him in 1871 we followed him forward through the census and found him with his father in 1881, married to Clara Eastop in 1883 and then on the 1901 & 1911 census but NOT 1891
Alfred James had 3 children Alfred John, Clara Susan Violet Nellie and Robert George we can work forward with these although Alfred John did marry in 1904 he is with his parents (as married) in 1911 but no sign of his wife Edith Ellen  nee Lonegran and no positive death either.

I think that as Alfred James named his daughter Clara Susan then he must have know his mother was Annie Susan and not Sarah Hudson Skidmore unless of course they just liked the name Susan ?

So we need to find Alfred James in 1871 and 1891
We need to find BMD for Elizabeth Selina
We need to find record of Annie Susan after 1866
can we find Ellen Edith Urwin nee Lonergan in 1911


Sometimes Urwin is recorded as Irwin

Something else just occurred to me, Rosina Sarah was called Rosina Sarah so was her mother Sarah Skidmore? Did she pose as Annie Susan when the children were christened on 11 May 1866?

I wonder how Robert Skidmore died he was hardly cold when banns were read
As banns were read in April 1868 (I think 25th) and Roberts death is recorded as Q2 1868 i.e. April as deaths had to be recorded 5 days after they occurred (now 8 days) so if he died 5 days before 1st April that gives us 26th March so he may have been dead 1 month maximum
 
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UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline toni*

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Re: Toni*’s OH Sc Hunt part 9
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 15 December 11 10:19 GMT (UK) »
Clara J Q (daughter of Clara S N V H) i suspect the Q stands for Queenie i cant think of any other names beginning with Q

if she was brought up for by her grandfather Alfred he did work for a newspaper maybe not the actual editor of the Times though, how do we find that out ?

if she was brought up by her grandfather where is she in 1911 ?


Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline toni*

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Re: Toni*’s OH Sc Hunt part 9
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 15 December 11 10:25 GMT (UK) »

I found the Claras in 1911 visiting William Gearing 12 Simla St, New Cross , Deptford, London
William Gearing is a married carman aged 38 although there is no wife present.
Clara S N V doesn’t appear to be dancing anymore! She has no occupation
Clara J Q is 5 months  old
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline janan

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Re: Toni*’s OH Sc Hunt part 9
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 15 December 11 10:30 GMT (UK) »
I've found Alfred James  in 1891 at 111 Vauxhall St Lambeth, all family present (indexed as Ursin)
RG12/36/7 Pg10

Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge


Offline toni*

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Re: Toni*’s OH Sc Hunt part 9
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 15 December 11 10:36 GMT (UK) »
thanks Jan  :)

i googled editor of the Times and found this on that wicked encyclopedia !
 ;)

Ownership

John Walter (1785–1803)
John Walter, 2nd (1803–1847)
John Walter, 3rd (1847–1894)
Arthur Fraser Walter (1894–1908)
Lord Northcliffe (1908–1922)
Astor family (1922–1966)
Roy Thomson (1966–1981)
News International (subsidiary of News Corporation), run by Rupert Murdoch (1981– )

Editorship
John Walter 1785–1803
John Walter, 2nd 1803–1812
John Stoddart 1812–1816
Thomas Barnes 1817–1841
John Delane 1841–1877
Thomas Chenery 1877–1884
George Earle Buckle 1884–1912
George Geoffrey Dawson 1912–1919
Henry Wickham Steed 1919–1922
George Geoffrey Dawson 1923–1941
Robert McGowan Barrington-Ward 1941–1948
William Francis Casey 1948–1952
William Haley 1952–1966
William Rees-Mogg 1967–1981
Harold Evans 1981–1982
Charles Douglas-Home 1982–1985
Charles Wilson 1985–1990
Simon Jenkins 1990–1992
Peter Stothard 1992–2002
Robert Thomson 2002–2007
James Harding 2007–
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline toni*

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Re: Toni*’s OH Sc Hunt part 9
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 15 December 11 11:17 GMT (UK) »
is the 1871 census searchable by household ?
can we search for Alfred J with mother ann / Annie Susan and mayeb Elizabeth Selina?
could Alfred James be with Alfred Urwins parents ?

does anyone have access to the newspapers out of interst to see if there are articles relating to Clara Susan Nellie Violets dancing days ?

and if they do have access to the newspapers can they search for a a missing woman (and child) i.e. Annie Susan (Elizabeth Selina)  between 11 May 1866 & 10 May 1869



Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline jaywit

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Re: Toni*’s OH Sc Hunt part 9
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 15 December 11 11:52 GMT (UK) »
We know from census returns that Alfred jnr. worked in the newspaper industry but on the production side not the editorial side. So I think the 'editor' is wishful thinking or garbled family stories.
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Offline regross

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Re: Toni*’s OH Sc Hunt part 9
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 15 December 11 12:05 GMT (UK) »
hi,

May not be important but free bdm has  Clara Violet Unwin born in Lambeth September quarter 1895 volme 1d page 496
could be related to:

Quote
I've found Alfred James  in 1891 at 111 Vauxhall St Lambeth, all family present (indexed as Ursin)

good luck Robyn
The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany

Offline toni*

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Re: Toni*’s OH Sc Hunt part 9
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 15 December 11 12:45 GMT (UK) »
i dont know if she is related or not but thanks for finding that robyn

I have just breifly looked at William Gearing who Clara is with in 1911

i found him in 1881 & 1891 but not 1901
RG12;  488; 40; 29
RG11;  695; 115;  7

i cant see a connection straight off must just be friends
i wonder where his wife is in 1911 (and who she is )

Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive