Author Topic: Red Barn Murder 1828  (Read 8325 times)

Offline billybarnowl

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Re: Red Barn Murder 1828
« Reply #9 on: Friday 22 December 17 13:14 GMT (UK) »
Previously Sparkgirl

Yes I am still researching this and the Martin's in Polstead - feel free to PM me if you want to exchange information.

If you want to have a good read - go to google books and search "red barn murder" and "william corder" which you download for free.

As to what actually happened only Maria and William will ever know the truth. I do believe at least he shot her and he did bury her.

Offline Romanygirl

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Re: Red Barn Murder 1828
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 27 October 21 01:24 BST (UK) »
I was brought up with the knowledge of this story all my life by my Romany family, only the first born was exposed to what we know as the truth on this, and being the first born I was told of this from a child all my life, My family have taken the truth to their grave till now, as my father laid dying he mentioned the murder three days before his death that i was brought up with,and told me to do what i feel i need to do on this old murder, so i shall start now.
Maria's name as some call her was not her name, she was brought over with her father  as a child, they came with many other Romanys to work on the farms, the squire where they settled in polstead told them they must all register at ipswich in the name of William Vine for the males and Mary Vine for the females, As that would be easier for him to remember, Mary's father after registering was given a different name by the squire due to his experience of his work, thats where the name Marten came into this. Mary when she got older decided to call herself Maria when she would entertain the men by singing and dancing for them, Yes she had a son at an early age by a married man, Yes she did get pregnant by one of the squires son's and had his son but that child died, it was when the squire and his son died that Mary picked up with William Coulder the squires last son, whom promised her the world but treated her badly, she became pregnant by him and gave birth to a daughter, where Coulder convinced her that she faces prison for having another child out of wed lock and she must give the baby up, But they shall marry and when things have settled she can get the baby back, but to say to people the baby was sick and died, Mary gave the child to relatives whom took the child to Cork in Ireland, when Coulder thought the coast was clear he avoided Mary, and they made arrangements to meet in the barn, where he told her he would not marry her, an argument started and Mary stated she was going to expose Coulder to his mother and about their daughter and how  the baby was entitled to the estate being  of his blood, and she will get the baby back, this is the reason he murdered her as he did not want a Romany bastard child having a claim on what was his. (Thats why NO body of the baby was ever found)It was her father whom had the visions and Romany men would not admit they have psychic abilities so  the current wife of Marys father claimed she saw the visions, No body of the child was ever found due to the fact the child never died, Coulder being the nasty evil person he was still denied his child up till he was hanged, thinking he would get away with the murder and that the child had gone, The child was brought back to the UK but in those days DNA did not exist and Coulder was now dead, So the relatives travelled down with the child to Bexleyheath where she always knew about her parents and what her father did to her mother, she was nicknamed "Queenie" but named Mary Vine after her mother, where she lived out her days never forgiving her father for the evil he did, and knowing he even tried to blame one of their own for her mothers death, Even till this day Coulder has been cursed to hell and his death mask and book in his skin shall always remain on display, he deserves no mercy at all, Now ask me how I know all of this? I shall tell you Mary Vine and William Coulder were my Fathers Great Great Grand parents. And all of Coulders assets is classed as Blood money in our eyes as he took the life of one of our own and will never be forgiven for this.

Offline Romanygirl

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Re: Red Barn Murder 1828
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 27 October 21 11:00 BST (UK) »
Maria's real name was Mary Vine, Coulder always called her Mary by her real name never Maria, Maria Marten was  her show name only no more, for when she would entertain. Her daughters name was also Mary Vine after her. I believe my father and great aunt on what they drummed into me since a child on this murder, even till he passed away he maintained it to be the truth, even to coulder paying certain people to claim the child died stating it was for marys protection to not to be placed in prison for having three babies out of wed lock, I am sorry if i have put a spanner in many peoples research on this, but her name was not marten it was vine, and the child did live that is why coulder could never show where he claimed it was buried and no remains were ever found, he was a liar and a thieft and an evil man, and all mary was was a young romany girl who fell madly in love with a nasty evil rouge of a squire

Offline Romanygirl

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Re: Red Barn Murder 1828
« Reply #12 on: Friday 17 June 22 02:00 BST (UK) »
If anybody would like to know more, as this is just a rough outline of events of what really happened, also Maria's real name what is Mary NOT Maria I am more than happy to reply to you, just message me, As this tale has been misled for too many years, and now is the time for the truth on this murder.


Offline Ruskie

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Re: Red Barn Murder 1828
« Reply #13 on: Friday 17 June 22 10:51 BST (UK) »
Romanygirl,

Have you taken (or considered taking) a DNA test? It could prove useful to support your family story. You might find some descendants of the child who you say lived.

The events happened a long time ago and even with best will in the world family stories are likely to have changed over the centuries. DNA will probably be the best evidence you can get, especially if you have a relative from an earlier generation who would be willing to take the test.

Sometimes the names Mary and Maria are interchangeable.  :)

Offline Romanygirl

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Re: Red Barn Murder 1828
« Reply #14 on: Friday 22 July 22 17:17 BST (UK) »
Yes I have considered taking a DNA test, Ive even enquired about it to a person on how to do this, but the replies I received were not good, I came away feeling that my family history will never come to light, what is claimed to be the truth by them,  I am a decendant of the child, If what my father  claimed to be true, as the child (of William and Mary aka Maria) was my father's Great Grand Mother.

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Red Barn Murder 1828
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 24 July 22 03:28 BST (UK) »
Yes I have considered taking a DNA test, Ive even enquired about it to a person on how to do this, but the replies I received were not good, I came away feeling that my family history will never come to light, what is claimed to be the truth by them,  I am a decendant of the child, If what my father  claimed to be true, as the child (of William and Mary aka Maria) was my father's Great Grand Mother.

You don’t need to make enquires, just buy a test, swab, and post it off:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/dna/

There are other companies but most people test with Ancestry, so you are likely to get more matches through Ancestry.

I don’t know what sort of things the person said to you to put you off a DNA test, but unless they are close family and have not had any success with their own DNA test on this particular branch of the family, then don’t take too much notice of them.

Everyone’s results are different. Especially if illegitimacies come into the mix, which they sometimes do, you and close relatives such as cousins may/will get different matches.

Other times you just need to be patient and wait for others to test and eventually match with you.

You really have nothing to lose by trying DNA.

If you need help interpreting the results, ask for help here on rootschat.

Offline Romanygirl

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Re: Red Barn Murder 1828
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 27 July 22 22:27 BST (UK) »
I was told to do a DNA I would need DNA from  Maria aka Mary or Coulder to prove I am a direct blood relative, and  doubt I would be granted it for many reasons, plus if it is possible and proven that I am, what my romany family claimed even my father on his death bed,  then all the stories on this case even though some are fact, would have to be rewritten, in short the baby died changed to the baby lived, and so forth, The one chance I thought I had I was to late was the skeleton remains of Coulder, what were claimed to be his, was handed over to a person whom claimed she was married to a very distant decent of Coulders and had them cremated. What angered me is she is not a blood relative at all only via marriage. If I had known that at the time I would of tried to of stopped it, as he does not deserve to rest in peace, and never shall, I felt she was being disrespectful to Mary aka Maria by having his skeleton cremated, The dna you mention is it the one that just shows  what nationalities you have only? For the record the person whom left me disheartened on the dna subject, was an author whom wrote books on this murder, but he did believe what i told him, and agreed that the many things i told him add up, and even he  believes the baby lived and thats why no body was ever found despite coulder showing where he claimed he buried the remains of the child.

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Red Barn Murder 1828
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 27 July 22 23:28 BST (UK) »
You test your own DNA. There may be descendants of Mary/Maria, who may have taken a dna test. Surely it wouldn’t matter if the story had to be re-written. I’m sure there would be many people keen to revisit the story.  :)

DNA doesn’t just test ethnicities (not very reliably at least). You will match with a lot of people and you will not know how you match, but it is worth persisting. You would hopefully get matches with Coulder descendants, possibly even descendants of his siblings, so you need to keep an open mind about how the matches connect with each other.

If true, it sounds odd that a non relative of this man would want to exhume his remains and have them cremated (unless there is more to this story or it didn’t happen the way you were told). I don’t think you would have been allowed any say in this matter.