Thomas WENNY/WENNER-2nd wife

[Junemac]

Hi, Hope someone can help.  I have an ancestor, Thomas Wenny, transported to Sydney in 1819 on coromandel. 1st wife, 1825 Mary ann smith?? convict-lifer, arrived sydney 1824. from Parramatta factory, married thomas, 1825.
Can find no death for Mary Ann, but I'm sure that I found a marr. to Eliza/Elizabeth ? at St.Philip's church, Sydney later.  Children, Louisa 1831, Rachel and Mary Ann 1843 and Lavinia, 1846.  One has mother down as elizabeth, and others are eliza (or vice versa).  My problem, is 1828 has Mary Ann still with Thomas- Louisa born 1831-seems odd that the next child is 1843.  My concern is that the girls have different mothers!!!! Eliza/Elizabeth Wenner died in 1854, ageed 45.

Where do I go from here??

Cheers, Junemac.

[judb]

Doesn't really help with your problem and you have probably seen these snippets from TROVE re Thomas WERNER.  There are also a couple of mentions of uncollected mail.

Signing an address of praise for a Parramatta magistrate, 1830

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2194611

A Thos WENNER of Lane Cove is charged, but acquitted of stealing timber. As your man seems to have been in Parramatta this may not be him - but maybe?? 

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/37119738

Judith

[Caryn_1]

Hi

1828 NSW Census shows:

Thomas Wenner – 28 years old – arrived on the Coromandel in 1820 for a term of 7 years. Occupation Wheelwright. Residence is at Parramatta. Religion – Protestant.

Mary Ann Wenner – 22 years old – arrived on the Brothers in 1824 for life. Residence also at Parramatta. Religion – Protestant.

According to the 1828 census (at the time the census was taken), there were no children in the household.

On 10 December 1830 in Sydney Mary Ann Wenner was on ‘Bond’. In a General Sessions Court in Sydney, she was ‘Found at large in Sydney’ and was ‘To be forwarded to Parramatta’. This entry is in the Gaol Description and Entrance Books dated December 12 1830. It should be noted though, that it almost looks as though Mary Ann’s surname has been transcribed as ‘Winner’ and it is only that the ship ‘Brothers’ is against her name that it makes it identifiable as her. It might be worth checking some records for the name Winner just in case?

Children born to Elizabeth and Thomas Wenner in Sydney, NSW:

Rachel Wenner born 14 February 1843 – baptised St Philips, Sydney on 30 April 1843, and Mary Ann Wenner born 14 February 1843 and baptised same date. These are twins.
 
Louisa Wenner was born on 31 July 1831 to Eliza and Thomas Wenner and baptised also at St Philips, Sydney on 21 August 1831. It could possibly be a different couple, or could be Elizabeth with her name shortened to Eliza. Only way to be sure is to order the birth certificates for both Louisa and the twins to be sure.

The gap could be explained simply by the family not being in NSW during these years. They may have left NSW to live somewhere else, either interstate or overseas (which is what I have recently found when searching for some of my family), and you might find that children have been born between 1832-1842 elsewhere.

I’ve not as yet been able to find any death records for Mary Ann either, however, it’s possible that her death may not have been registered (and also not available in the online indexes). Someone else may have a better idea as to how and where to find that information for you. I hope the above has been useful for you though.

Cheers
Caryn

[Junemac]

Thank you, Judith and Caryn. The info. in Trove are both ab out my thomas. Although he is in 'Parramatta' in 1828 census, that area covered the area known as 'Kissing Point'-which is near to the Lane cove area, where he was living when Louisa married in 1849.
Re the name of 'Winner' I have looked for all sorts of spellings, in fact, the youngest daughter, Lavinia is listed as 'Weaver'.  Thank you for that info. about her being'at large'. I will look further at that.

In the register of St. Philips's church in sydney, where all the girls were baptised, the only name for 'mother' is either 'Eliza' or elizabeth, and on Elizabeth Wenner's death cert. there is no maiden name, either.

Thanks again, cheers, June

[judb]

Good finds, Caryn.

Thomas's surname is variously spelt WENER, WENNY, WINNY and WENNER (assuming thiese are all the same person)

Australian Death Index shows:
1867 #1833
Thomas WENER
Registered: Sydney, New South Wales

WENNY on various convict documentation (can transcribe if you want)

WINNY on Prison Hulk register

WENNER  on 1828 census as shown by Caryn

Judith

[judb]

Some marriages/deaths which may be the daughters:  (You probably have all these)
Marriage
1849  #V1849164 34C   
Louisa WENNER = Robert LEAL, district NU

Death
1860 #1568   
Louisa LEAL, father: THOMAS, DIED SYDNEY   

Marriage
1861 #357   
Rachel WENNER = John  WILSON SYDNEY

Marriage:
1862 #573   
Mary Ann WENNER   = Francis ABIGAIL, reg SYDNEY

Death
1899 #9266   
Mary A ABIGAIL, parents: THOMAS, UNKNOWN, reg at GLEBE 

Marriage:
3058/1864 #3058
Lavinia (Lavina) WENNER    m  Stephen ELPHICK, reg at RYDE

There is also a marriage for
1869 #2007       
Mary A WENNER = James PARKER reg at BRAIDWOOD

So -  wondering how she might fit in - if she does!

Judith

[Junemac]

Judith, Re the 2nd. Mary Ann Wenner who married at Braidwood to James Parker.  I did buy that cert., but it is nothing to do with my Wenners.

One of these days I may find out whether the 2nd wife is indeed Louisa's mother, or another lady, or even Mary Ann with a different name!!!  I had thought of trying to find the b urial plot of Elizabeth Wenner 1854 in
willoughby, but I suppose it would be unreadable!

Thanks again, June

[Caryn_1]

Hi

I've attached the section from the Gaol Description and Entrance Book for you. Mary Ann is the second from the bottom.

I've also found this other document that might relate to your Mary Ann? Date of conviction is 29 March 1823, however, the name is transcribed as Ann 'Winner'. She is 23 years old and has been convicted for stealing apples. It is quite difficult to read. The second document attached is from the NSW Australia Convict Ship Muster Rolls for the year 1824 for the ship Brothers. Ann Wenner/Winner is the third name from the top.

Cheers
Caryn

[Caryn_1]

Meant also to mention for the Gaol document for Mary Ann Wenner - the column that reads as .......''........Sydney - actually reads as 'in a General Sessions Court in Sydney'.

Cheers
Caryn