John Gordon Kinna - Nanmill

[tkgafs]

Does anyone know where Nanmill is ?

in the Urr opr there are the following two entries

John Gordon lawful son of James Kinna and Ravenscroft McMillan was born at Nanmill 2nd March and baptised 20th March

and

John Gordon Kinna died 01/01/1836 at Nammill aged 7 months

I presume that Nanmill must be somewhere in the URR parish, but it may possibly be somewhere near Twynholm or Borgue

I am interested as there are also the following two entries in the URR oprs

25/03/1830  Douglas lawful son of James Kinna and Ravenscroft McMillan was born in Twynholm

25/08/1832 - Alexander lawful son of James Kinna and Ravenscroft McMillan was born in Twynholm

I cant see any reason why these are being announced in URR oprs as the father James Kinna was born in Borgue 01/09/1789 and the mother Ravenscroft McMillan was apparently born in Minnigaff between 1789 - 1795, although I cant find a birth record for her

but strangely their wedding was recorded in Twynholm OPRs as follows

1812 Twynholm OPR - Nov 27, James McKinna and Ravenscroft McMillan were regularly proclaimed here and married this day in Minnigaff, but there does not seem to be a record of it taking place in Minnigaff !!

If anyone can help shed some light why these odd entries pop up in different parishes I'd be very grateful

thanks

Tkgafs

[tkgafs]

I wonder in Nanmill could be Nunmill down the sandside road outside Kirkcudbright

Tkgafs

[Gadget]

Hi

The baptism took place in the parish of Twynholm so I assume that Nanhill is in that parish rather than Urr. Not sure why you thought it was Urr 

Re their marriage. What you see in Scotland is an entry for proclamation of Banns, rather than marriages. Often the date/place of marriage is recorded with the Banns. These had to be proclaimed in both the parishes where the bride and groom were living at the time. They would then be married in just one parish.

I'm not sure but I think that the Minnigaff records might not be complete for that time. You can check on the GROS site for their availability:

http://www.scotlandspeoplehub.gov.uk/pdf/list-of-oprs-855to901.pdf

Added - just checked and Minnigaff marriages/banns seem to be there 


gnu

PS - I've been looking at old maps on the Nat Lib of Scotland map site but so far can't find  Nanmill:

http://geo.nls.uk/search/mosaic/

[Gadget]

Hi again

i've looked at the baptisms for children of James and Ravenscroft 1820-1840 and they are all in Twynholm, including Douglas and Alexander. I attach a snip from the Twynholm parish records for you to see. 

The only entry for a Kinna (variations) in Urr during this time was for a Margaret Kinna in 1831 with parents William Kinna and Mary Irvine.

What was your source for the Urr parish records?

Added - I think it was from  an Ancestry tree    I've just checked in the Urr records for 1830 and there is no entry that I can see. The only record is the one that I've found in Twynholm.


gnu

[tkgafs]

Hello Gnu,

thanks for the updates

my info came from the following Mcmillan website http://www.johnmacmillan.co.uk/opr/opr_urr_b.html

I have to presume the owner has made an error, as I said I couldn't understand why they would be mentioned in the Urr records as I can see no obvious connection to the place.

I have just remembered, I am sure there is a place near The Dhoon called Nunmill, which would make much more sense. I think this is probably within Twynholm parish.

But of course the real goal is to find the actual marriage record of Ravenscroft McMillan and James Kinna in the Minnigaff records and then to find Ravenscroft's birth record, she died in 1883 in Borgue but her death record does not record her parents, it gives her an age of 94 which would give a birth year of around 1789, the various census records give a birth year of between 1790 & 1795 and she consistently says she is born in Minnigaff

I have tried various searches on Scotlands people but found nothing that looks like it might be her

any help gratefully received

Tkgafs

 

[Gadget]

Hi

I've done a wider search to see if I could get any info from their children's names.  I've come up with these baptisms for them ~

1816 Elizabeth Lorimer(Minnigaff)
1823 Thomas (Borgue)
1825 Margaret (Borgue)
1827 Agness (Twynholm)
1830 Douglas (Twynholm)
1832  Alexander (Twynholm)
1835 John Gordon (Twynholm)


there seems to be a few gaps so they could have had other children.
 
Do you have details of James' parents?


gnu

[Gadget]

Take this with  a large pinch of salt,  as I've not found anything to substantiate the claim,  but two of those trees has her parents as William McMillan and Mary McLure.

I'll see if I can find anything more.


gnu

[tkgafs]

Gnu,

I think they have these other children in addition to the ones you listed

Catherine McKenna  - Minnigaff 15/11/1813  
Mary Kinna - Culmazie Kirkinner 26/12/1819
James McGuffock Kinna - Culmazie Kirkinner 12/03/1821
John Gordon Kinna - Nunmill Twynholm 20/03/1835
Isabella Kinna - Twynholm 08/01/1838

I think there may be another daughter called Hannah born around 1822

I suspect that James Kinna is the twin of Alexander McKennay both baptised Borgue 1st September 1789 the sons of Thomas McKennay and Mary Houstone

Baptism 01/09/1789 Borgue as James McKennay son of Thomas McKennay and Mary Houstone
Alex and James, twins, lawf....to Thomas McKennay and Mary Houstone in Litle Carleton Bap Sept 1 1789.

James died 30th June 1847 in Borgue

in Wigton Free Press dated 8th July 1847
Death
KINNA, James - D30/6/1847 - At Borgue Village, near Kirkcudbright, on the 30th ultimo, after a lingering illness, Mr James Kinna, parish sexton.

His son in law a John McGaw who registers Ravenscrofts death in 1883 appears to take over the position

In 1851 census on Ancestry, Ravenscroft is listed as a pauper is it possible there would be any poor records which might help, [Parish: Borgue; ED: 5; Page: 1; Line: 14; Roll: CSSCT1851_211; Year: 1851.] the Ancestry transcription is particularly poor though and was very hard to find.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1851Scotland&indiv=try&h=2409435

My line comes down through Agnes Kinna who marries James Beattie in Borgue in 1851

Thanks for your interest and assistance

Tkgafs

[tkgafs]

Take this with  a large pinch of salt,  as I've not found anything to substantiate the claim,  but two of those trees has her parents as William McMillan and Mary McLure.

I'll see if I can find anything more.

gnu

I would guess that one of the trees may well be mine and yes there is nothing to substantiate it, I have been trying for a few years to find evidence for this claim which I found on a beattie tree which for the most part was fairly accurate, my tree is called simpson

Tkgafs