William Francis Dubock BROWN

[judb]

When did they go back to Sydney?  Or was it just William who went back/

Judith

[majm]

Hi there,

I am confused, where does the “DUBOCK” name come into the picture please?

I notice that the NSW BDM online index gives two entries for the 1837 marriage mentioned in the OP.   One offers a further surname of Halliday for Sarah.

The familysearch’s Historical records show that a William Francis BROWN (noting only two given names) married 5 Sept 1837 at St Andrews, Scots Church, Sydney, to Sarah Halliday OR Cox. https://www.familysearch.org

Some likely Early Church Records  for the baptisms of those five children, Louisa, William Goodlad, George, Susannah and Sarah, presuming they were baptised in NSW
From NSW BDM online index, with parents recorded as William F and Sarah or just as William and Sarah
Louisa, 1838
William G, 1840
George, 1842
NOT found Susannah though, but found Susanna
Sarah 1847

From Familysearch online searchings today...

Louisa BROWN, b 24 Aug 1838, baptism 8 Sept 1839 recorded at St Philip’s Sydney ... parents William Francis Brown and Sarah.... (remember though that St Philip’s was receiving transmitted records from various locations and denominations, and in this instance there’s no third given name for the father, nor any nee name for the mother, and there’s over a year’s delay between birth date and when the baptism record was entered at St Philip’s)

William Goodlad BROWN, b 20 Aug 1840, baptism recorded at St Philip’s Sydney for 13 Sept 1840, parents William Brown and Sarah (remember though that St Philip’s was receiving transmitted records from various locations and denominations and no second or third given name for the father, nor a nee name for the mother)

George BROWN b 16 Sept 1842, baptism recorded at St Philip’s Sydney 9 October 1842, again this could be a transmitted record, parents recorded as William Francis Brown and Sarah.

Susanna BROWN, b 16 Feb 1845, baptism twice recorded at Familysearch (hence my suggestion re transmitted records), baptism recorded on 9 March 1845, with parents as William Francis Brown and Sarah

Sarah BROWN, b  27 April 1847, baptism recorded at St Philip’s, 30 May 1847, parents as William Brown and Sarah.

So, my question
 
What record do you have giving you reason to note the three given names of William Francis Dubock BROWN please?  I can see the likely registration of a death for William F Brown in 1861, in Sydney (#809) but no parents names are shown on the index.

Cheers,  JM 

[majm]

Could anyone please help me with any information regarding William Francis Dubock Brown, Born Sydney Australia January 1817 Married Sarah Cox 5/9/1837, Died Sydney, 30/8/1861, Five children, Louisa, William Goodlad, George, Susannah and Sarah. William's Parents were William Horatio Brown and Susannah Dubock. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanking you.
regards,
ROSJAN

Hi there,

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/60483218  The Empire, 31 Aug 1861
“ DEATHS. BROWN-On the 30th August, at the Sydney Infirmary, Mr.William Brown, many years foreman of the Patent Slip,Sussex-street, aged 47 years.”

I think it is likely that this is NOT actually your chap, as this chap was born circa 1814, and I cannot see any mention in that newspaper for all three given names. .... Sorry, but I am very doubtful that two chaps both named William Brown would have died on the same day, 30 August 1861 in Sydney Town. 

Could this be the marriage of your Susanna/h, perhaps some typos either at the newspaper or at NSW BDM online index ...

Edward M LOWDLER and Susannah BROWN, registered at Windsor NSW in 1861, #3072 ... the civil mc may not have all the details for their parents, but I have already given the link to help you sort that hurdle out.   
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/60483733 The Empire, 30 July 1861
“LOWATER-BROWN- On the 25th instant, at the residence of  Mr. Busby, Maqquarie-street, Windsor, by the Rev. C. Creed, Edward M., youngest son of Mr. William Lowater, to Susannah, second daughter of Mr. William Brown Portland Heads, Hawkesbury River.”
Fingers crossed, it is often a huge and difficult task to sort BROWN registrations back through the generations.
Cheers,  JM

[majm]

I think this is likely the d.c. reference for the chap who died at the Sydney Infirmary on 30 August 1861 # 809 ... It displays online as William F BROWN, with father's given name as William, but no name for the mother.  It does give that this person died in Sydney and the death was registered in Sydney.

The d.c. should list that William F Brown's children, depending of course on the knowledge of the informant.  If it is the chap who died in the Infirmary, it is possible that the informant was a hospital attendant or a coroner.  It was unusual for these people to enquire to find out the marital status, or the name of the spouse, or the details of any children of the marriage.  The d.c. should give you the clergy and the cemetery details, so perhaps there's a headstone or church records to help confirm/eliminate this chap. 

Cheers,  JM

[Dundee]

Hi JM,

William Jnr's mother was Susannah DUBOCK, probably married in 1815 in London to William BROWN (FamilySearch).

Debra 

[majm]

Thanks Dundee,

 

I am confused, where does the “DUBOCK” name come into the picture please?

I am confused simply because I cannot find any indexes with William Brown showing "Dubock" as his third given name...  So I guess I should have written

...'where does the "DUBOCK" name  as in William Francis Dubock BROWN as per your heading, come into the picture for records for him please?'

Oh deary me, I try so hard not to be so wordy in my posts,  .... and look where it gets me .... 


Oh well, "they" do say that practise makes perfect, so I will just have to practise some more 


Cheers,  JM

[judb]

JM this is the only one I found - the Tasmanian registration made 5 years after the birth.

Registered 1823, #1519 at Launceston Tasmania
William Fran Dubock BROWN
Birth Date:   21 Jan 1817
Father's Name:   William Horatio Brown
Mother's Name:   Susannah Brown
Birth Place:   Tasmania

I am still wondering when William returned to Sydney.

Transcription of baptism certificate for George BROWN:
Baptism George Brown 9 October 1842,
born 16 September 1842 to William Francis & Sarah Brown, Shipwright of Sussex Street, Sydney in the Parish of St Philip, Sydney in the County of Cumberland by B Lucas Watson in the Church of England.

The death quoted here
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/60483218  The Empire, 31 Aug 1861
“ DEATHS. BROWN-On the 30th August, at the Sydney Infirmary, Mr.William Brown, many years foreman of the Patent Slip,Sussex-street, aged 47 years.”
would appear to be the father of the George BROWN whose baptism is above.

Judith

[majm]

Hi

I cannot find William Francis Dubock BROWN in NSW .... as an adult ....

So I  think 'foreman' at the hotel, "Patent Slip" may be a clue to the shipwright who resided in Sussex St near the hotel but as to that chap being William Francis Dubock Brown ... I cannot join those dots yet,  Sorry

Cheers JM

[smudwhisk]

You may find this interesting:

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18070513-24-defend253&div=t18070513-24#highlight

The 1815 marriage from the original PR is as follows:

Whitechapel St Mary
3 Jul 1815
William Brown widower and Susannah Dubock single woman, both of this parish
Witnesses: Timo Bourne?, Edward Dubock and Susannah Dubock

The two Dubock witnesses may be Susannah's parents, Edward Dubock is certainly her father as the signature matches his marriage entry but his wife was illiterate if her marriage entry is to be believed and another Susannah Dubock, wife of William, was also illiterate so the jury is still out on that.  The important one though is Edward when it comes to identifying her.  William Brown's signature interestingly is different to the one on his "marriage" to Rebecca Wilmot (as per the old bailey details) but he may have been disguising his handwriting.  Susannah Dubock had a brother called Wiliam Francis Dubock who migrated from London to Coventry.

I had contact a couple of years ago with a lady in Australia descended from William Horatio Brown and Susanna, as I was trying to confirm the identity of Susanna Dubock.  It would seem that Susannah Dubock didn't consider the marriage necessarily legal since I was told she did remarry in 1844 in Tasmania.

My own interest is via the Dubock line since Susannah's mother is the half cousin of one of my ancestors.  There was various information online regarding William Horatio Brown's wife Susannah and some debate over which Susanna Dubock she was, however the witnesses on the marriage confirm that a lot of these sites have picked the wrong Susanna.