Author Topic: Jonas Read  (Read 6011 times)

Offline Bobmc

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Jonas Read
« Reply #18 on: Friday 06 January 12 07:28 GMT (UK) »
Hi Selina. I will give the latter a go, that will work out to about $23.00 Australian or there abouts. You know, it seems strange, William's brother Alfred was a school teacher when he wrote this letter about their mother, Elizabeth, being who she was related to, Alfred was 4 years younger than William and in essence I don't think Alfred would have lied about something like this about their mother who was still alive at the time, this really has all of us wondering down here, maybe there is truth to this and eventually we will arrive at the truth either way.
  Thanks again for your help. Bobmc

Offline Selina

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,599
    • View Profile
Re: Jonas Read
« Reply #19 on: Friday 06 January 12 10:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi Bobmc

I agree that it would have been strange to make up that story whilst mother was still living, usually these accounts are further removed in time.  Also an unusual family to claim - woudn't have thought many working class people would have heard of them, although a school teacher probably would.

I have a distant relative who would most likely have known Jonah and Elizabeth, this family were carpenters/upholsterers and lived in the Castle Hill area.  He would have doubtless visited The Nag's Head as was rather too fond of a jar or two!  Eventually dying in a local pub.

Hope you get a successful conclusion to your fascinating story.

Selina
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Bobmc

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Jonas Read
« Reply #20 on: Friday 06 January 12 13:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi Selina.
   I am having a bit of a laugh at the moment, I just read your last about your distant relative dying in a Pub, what a what a way to depart this earth, I bet he died a happy man in a place that he loved God bless him. I have one relative that I contact now and then and she is decended from the Read side and lives in South Australia at a place called Strathalbyn her name is Frances Heyer nee Read, I have the job of telling her what is going on with this search of Elizabeth. Catch up with you soon it is the start of the weekend down here, Bye for now. Bobmc

Offline Bobmc

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Jonas Read
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 10 January 12 05:22 GMT (UK) »
Hi Selina.
    I have just applied for a copy of Christianna Read's birth certificate and should have it down here about late January, I can hardly wait to see what maiden name there is for Elizabeth Read, if it doesn't turn out to be what we have been led to believe, then we will be happy with knowing for sure what Elizabeth's maiden name is and that will put the enigma to rest and follow up what her true maiden name is. Bobmc


Offline Selina

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,599
    • View Profile
Re: Jonas Read
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 10 January 12 20:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi Bobmc,

I shall be very interested to hear what the name is!

Whatever it is, it is well worth knowing the truth and then you can move on with your research. 

Best wishes,
Selina

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Bobmc

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Jonas and Elizabeth Read
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 25 January 12 06:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi Selina, Trish and All, I have the information back from the General Register Office UK about Christianna Read and who her mother is, on the certificate it shows the mother as being, late Walker, nee Carter, I was not surprised with the outcome as I thought that someone back then had been telling a few Furphy's namely Alfred, William Reads younger brother as to where the information came to light about being related to the Beechey,s, sorry about the Aussie slang, Furphy's means telling tall stories. So, if any of the Beechey decendants may have been offended by this enigma I truly appologise.
Thanks to all who have pointed me in the right direction to get this information, now we know for sure who Elizabeth really is, ENIGMA ENDED at last. Bobmc.

Offline Selina

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,599
    • View Profile
Re: Jonas Read
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 25 January 12 10:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi Bobmc,

Many thanks for letting us know the outcome.  At least you can carry on reseaching knowing you have established the truth - the certificate was money well spent I think.

If you refer back to my reply No. 12 - it must be the Elizabeth Carter/Walker mentioned there.  From memory he died the year they married.  I can let you have more details on this later.

Regards,
Selina
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Selina

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,599
    • View Profile
Re: Jonas Read
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 25 January 12 19:17 GMT (UK) »
Hello again,

Elizabeth Carter married George William Walker 9 March 1818, St. Giles, Cambridge.  Both of the parish, she made her mark.
Witnesses: Mary Smith and William Howell.

George William Walker aged 24 husband of Elizabeth was buried at St. Giles on 30 September 1818.

From the census and death records it appeared that Elizabeth was born circa 1800.  There is a baptism at St. Giles on 30 August 1800 of Elizabeth Carter daughter of William and Susan.  Born 12 August 1800.
They did not appear to baptise other children at St. Giles.

The next nearest Elizabeth Carter was born in 1803 at St. Peter’s (adjoining parish to St. Giles) daughter of  Edward and Mary.

There is a marriage of a William Carter to a Susanna Smith 2 June 1800 St. Clements (parish adjoins St. Giles).  They baptised several children at St. Clements from 1803.  Dates a little tight between this marriage and birth of Elizabeth and Carter is a common name.  So just one to bear in mind really.

Selina

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline peterd500

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 56
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Jonas Read
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 28 August 16 23:55 BST (UK) »
Anyone still following this?   

I've been having a look at the tree of my friend Andrew.

He likely descends from Christianna READ the daughter of Jonah & Elizabeth READ.  From census information consistently telling us that she was born at Cambridge, that particular Christianna is the only candidate available to be his ancestor.

FreeBMD has Christianna's marriage to John CONDER which should give at least her father if the cert is ordered (not me as they are not my people).

FreeBMD
Marriages 3Q 1859
John CONDER, Cambridge 3b, 787
Christiana READ, Cambridge 3b, 78

John CONDER was a school master and a minister.

They lived at a National School at St Anne's in Wandsworth London in 1861 where John was a schoolmaster, in 1871 were at 21 & 23 Park Road Battersea (converted into one house) when John was a Royal College Preceptor, and in 1881 John was a Rector at Wendy in Cambridgeshire.

Two baptisms of children in 1864 and 1866  have them at Halbrake House at New Wandsworth/Battersea, so I think that the location in 1861 and 1871 will be the same and it will be Halbrake School aka College.

http://www.census1891.com/streets-h.php
Halbrake College, Battersea, WANDSWORTH

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SOUTH-AFRICA-IMMIGRANTS-BRITISH/2005-09/1128012346
".....While searching for some of my UK roots in the 1881 census, I came  across a few South African-born youngsters at boarding school.
The following three, all born "Cape of Good Hope", were at 17/19/21/23 Park Road, Halbrake College, Battersea, Surrey, England (1881 UK Census).....Other students at the College came from far and wide, including Burma, France, Trinidad & Tobago and even "Hindostan"....."

There were not many pupils with John in the 1871 census, just 14, but maybe not all the students were boarding at the one place.  He had two assistant masters and 6 servants in the household which seems like overkill for just 14 students and his family (5 children at that stage, had 9 altogether). Not sure.

Just found this:

http://oro.open.ac.uk/18803/1/pdf02.pdf
The Metamophosis of Battersea, 1800-1914, a Building History
Ph.D Thesis, The Open University, by K.A. Bailey (1995)
"Private education was still available in Battersea during the School Board era, including the long-established Sir Walter St. John's and Battersea Grammar Schools, but affected only a tiny proportion of children. Local directories for 1891/2 list 26 "schools", located in ordinary dwelling houses, mostly small terraced properties. Only two of them were run by men - Thomas Montelli's preparatory school at 43 Bennerley Road and the Rev. J. Parr's Halbrake School at 21/3 Park Road, New Wandsworth. The rest were run by women, virtually all spinsters. Ten were for "ladies", two for "girls" and four were "preparatory". Sixteen of these establishments were located in or to the south of Lavender Hill-St. Johns Hill, and none in the typically working-class streets of north Battersea except Miss E. Adams' ladies' school (54 Cabul Road) and Mrs. Mary Hannington's (114 New Road). It is unlikley that these schools accommodated more than 20-30 pupils on average, providing in total less than half of one typical board school."


The details given for the family of Jonah & Elizabeth READ earlier in this thread don't quite gel.

1841 census has (probable) issue  Matthew 15, William 9, Alfred 4, Christianna 2 and Frederic 7 weeks.  Can't be 100% sure with relationships not given in 1841.

1851 census has Susan 21, Christianna 12, and Fredrick 10, as definite children.

The list given earlier in the thread doesn't mention Susan or Matthew (who can't be the one died 1826). There is no sign in 1841 census or 1851 census of these issue from that list, Amelia, Harriet, Emma and George.

Unless there were multiple burials and kids coming and going from the family at census time, The list of issue given earlier in the thread doesn't gel properly with the lists in census information.

Early days yet, maybe I haven't been at this long enough to sort it out,  but those lists need to be reconciled with each other.  I haven't had a go at OPR data yet.

Christianna's son Eric CONDER married Eliza Louisa (Louisa) RUMBLE in 1901, part of a complicated set of marriages.  When Louisa died, Eric remarried 1917 to her sister Ann Ellen RUMBLE who had previously been married 1901 to Robert Stephen LOVE who had previously been married 1880 to Fanny POWIS.


Eric & Louisa's children:

Daughter Florence emigrated to New Zealand where she married 1924 Basil William CHISNALL.  Her sister Kathleen married Harold BOSTON 1927 at Acton and they also went to New Zealand. Sister Vera married Laurence PORTCH. Sister Ethel Margarita married her first cousin, Frederick Charles LOVE, who was the son of Robert & Ann. I don't know what happened to sister Madeline.

Peter