Hollinshed Family of Orford

[Charlie Brown]

Hello Mike
Thanks for your speedy reply. I had found the two links you gave. It was the letter to Sir Robert Rich that alerted me to the Hollinshead and Brady names. Having read your ancestors document in the Record Office I wondered if the story of the large wreck that William Hollinshead salvaged which resulted in the large salt cellars being handed down in the family was the same wreck, if they felt it was important enough to complain about. I also wondered, as John Syred in his will of 1709 mentions he is a part owner of a hoy, whether the 2 other part owners were WH and JB. John Syred's daughter, Ann, married George Mingay and four generations of George Mingay's were then merchants in Orford. There is another fascinating (to me!) story in the document about a widow stirring up the social norms of the backwater of Orford. That is Sophia Mingay and a lovely story to add to the facts of her marrying Thomas Mingay,a banker and merchant in London and then a while after his death marrying Thomas's nephew, also a Thomas, and moving to Orford. By coincidence I went to Orford today and stumbled across 3 Hollinshead gravestones which are just about readable for William, Elizabeth and John. Have you got copies of these? If you would like them I could email them to you, but if of no interest, let me know and I will just delete them. If I come across anything else about William Hollinshead or John Brady I will let you know.
Charlie

[BradyCMH]

Charlie,
It does not seem beyond the bounds of possibility that this was the same ship, but I have as yet found no evidence.
Elizabeth , daughter of Charles Brady & Margaret Hollinshed, married William James Mingay – in Greyfriars, London oddly enough. They moved to “Lynn”, by which I believe is meant King’s Lynn, and appear not to have had children.
I have images of the Hollinshed gravestones, but very indistinct. I would gratefully appreciate your sending me your photos, thank you. They might be an improvement.
The great puzzle to me is how there came to be Daniel and Mary Hollinshed.  The 1840 chronicler stated quite clearly that no male line was left after John and Elizabeth. John had a son also John who was illegitimate, but, again, the 1840 Memo states he left no issue.  I wonder whether William had a brother or cousin, at the head of a parallel line, but I have found no evidence yet for this, or any other pedigree of Daniel Hollinshed.
Such evidence, if found, might also give a clearer picture of where exactly William came from.

Mike

[Charlie Brown]

William James Mingay is the ancestor I have researched back from. I knew that he married Elizabeth Brady who was the second of his four wives, but had never researched her ancestors, so thanks for sharing who her parents were.  William James was a merchant in London on his father's behalf and then took a business partner in his brother in law and gradually relocated to Kings Lynn. An interesting chap.
I am happy to send you the photos. If you would like me to do this directly then can we communicate by email? Otherwise I will try to attach them to a post here if that is possible.
Charlie

[gobbitt]

Elizabeth , daughter of Charles Brady & Margaret Hollinshed, married William James Mingay – in Greyfriars, London oddly enough. They moved to “Lynn”, by which I believe is meant King’s Lynn, and appear not to have had children.

Mike

The parish register of St Margaret, King's Lynn, at FamilySearch.org shows that Elisabeth, the wife of grocer William James Mingay, of Saturday Market, Lynn, was buried on 22 January 1813 at the age of 40 (born 1772-73).

Is it beyond doubt that her parents were Charles & Margaret Brady (Orford baptism July 1772) and not Thomas & Elizabeth Brady (January 1773)?

If so, I can feel a little more confident about the ancestry of the Elizabeth Brady who married John Hutton at Orford in 1795 and was buried there in August 1812 aged 39 (born 1772-73). It seems likely that she was one of the four children of Thomas & Elizabeth christened at Orford: Moses (1767), John (1770), Elizabeth (1773) and William (1775).

Their mother may have been Elizabeth Reed, who married a Thomas Brady at Ipswich (St Margaret) in 1762. The best evidence I have for that hypothesis is the will of a potential grandson, "John Brady now commonly called & known by the name of John Reed late of Orford in the County of Suffolk but now of Woodbridge" (signed by Jno Brady 1814; probate PCC 1816). After providing for Mary Pitkin or Pitkins (widow of Joseph Pitkin, lighterman & fireman of the Royal Exchange, London) the will divides bricklayer John's assets between his Hutton and Brady cousins, John & Elizabeth Hutton (children of the above-mentioned John & Elizabeth Hutton) and the unnamed children of William & Martha Brady.

William Brady (c.1775-1853) married Martha Read at Orford in 1799. Their sons are known to have included another Moses (c.1809-1815), supporting Elizabeth Hutton's descent from Thomas Brady. Martha was born at Marlesford and probably baptized there in 1776 (a daughter of Martha Reid, fathered by William Martin). She was buried at Parham in 1870, sharing her husband's grave.

Unfortunately, I can't find the burial or age of the testator John Brady/Reed to assess whether he was more closely connected with Martha Reid/Read than with Elizabeth Reed.

David

[BradyCMH]

David,

Excuse the delay.  I have come to the conclusion that there were quite a few Bradys around in Orford in the XVIII century! Family records state that this Elizabeth Brady, daughter and one of three children of Charles Brady & Margaret Hollinshed married a Wm. Mingay at Gravesend in 1812 and died in 1813 (at age 41) . I have never found any record of this marriage, but there is a record of a marriage to Wm James Mingay in London in 1812. I am inclined to believe this is my Elizabeth.
There was another line of our family through cousins about 4 generations previously.  I have not been able to put all that together;  there could be another Thomas out there, but certainly no Johns or Marthas have come to light, and that is probably an unrelated family.

Mike

[gobbitt]

Thanks Mike

Ancestry's image of the 1812 wedding record at Christ Church Newgate Street (also known as Christ Church Greyfriars) is evidently not from the primary register, since all the signatures are written by the same hand. Although the second witness looks like P Brady, I wonder whether this could be a mistranscription of F Brady - possibly Elizabeth's niece Frances Sophia (b. 1798).

The confusion of Greyfriars and Gravesend makes your family story no less plausible in the main, so I'm now happy to claim Thomas and Elizabeth Brady as the parents of Elizabeth Hutton.

David

[BradyCMH]

Yes, I see on the 1812 Marriage register, presumably of the church, that all the handwriting is similar.

On my poor copy I read "P" Brady rather than "F". However this is not a witness but a participant in the marriage! Parson got it wrong.  The witnesses are S.D.Evley (possibly) of whom I know nothing but might have been a friend of Mingay's, and  Edward Lark. He was a draper from Gravesend who married one of Elizabeth's aunts, Mary. The confusion of Greyfriars with Gravesend had never struck me...Well done! And in this case it could have been further compounded by the home of the witness.

Mike

[BradyCMH]

David,

When you look into the copious and often influential Mingay family some incisistencies crop up . I down loaded some history about the Mingaus some months ago but the web address I took at the time doesn't work now. 

[BradyCMH]

David,
When you look into the copious and often influential Mingay family some incisistencies crop up . I down-loaded some history about the Mingays some months ago
http://www.mingayhistorywebpages.com/JAM%20BOOK%20PDFIndex%20and%20Pages%201%20to%20595.pdf
  It claims that WJM married four times and that Elizabeth Brady was the first, dying in childbirth. However, the dates don't stack up. For instance, Ann (nee Atkinson) of Bacton is shown on the heritage websites as marrying him in 1792 (c/f the marriage to Elizabeth in 1812), and she died in 1801, some years BEFORE WJM's marriage to Elizabeth.

Mike Brady