Author Topic: Wildermoth/Wildermouth  (Read 12283 times)

Offline fred21

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« on: Thursday 09 February 12 07:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi

I am interested in any information on the Wildermoth/Wildermouth family who settled in Ireland from France.

My ancestor was Jean Christopher Wildermouth who it is believed was a French solider who settled in Ireland and married a Anne Keenan in Belfast in 1787 (according to the IGI and yet to be confirmed).  He is also believed to have died in 1806 in Belfast (again from the IGI).

He and his wife had a son, J William Wildermoth born 1787 in Kilkenny.  He joined the British Army and served in the Napoleonic Wars. (I have his military record which states that he was half French and had been born in Kilkenny.

J, William married a Mary Whelan and had the following children.
Mary born c1825
John William born 1826 in Roscrea, Co Tipperary (he is my ancestor and I have quite a bit of information on him)
James born 1828
William born 1831
Michael born 1834
Daniel born 1837 died in England in 1877
Thomas c1844
Rose c1850.

All the children are believed to have been in Ireland.

I am very interested in finding out more about these children and there parents and grandparents.

If anyone is able to help or to provide where I can start looking I would be very grateful.

I am looked at the Ancestry and have got all the census information etc from them.

Many thanks
Wildermoth/Wildermouth (Ireland, England, France); Byrne, Whelan, Keenan (Ireland); Ellis (Cornwall); Bambrough (Durham), Newman (Durham and Norfolk); Watson (Durham); Mattison (Yorkshire); Kirker (New Zealand and Ireland); Pirie (Scotland); Campton (unknown);

Offline shanew147

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,777
  • Dublin, Ireland
    • View Profile
Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 09 February 12 08:38 GMT (UK) »
Do you know what denomination your Wildermoth/Wildermouth ancestors were ?

I dont see any references to the surname in Ireland on parish Baptism/Marriage indexes or on FamilySearch extracted or Index records... maybe the family later used a variation in spelling ?

I see Daniel's 1877 death on the BMD index in Lancashire


Shane
Remember to check the Resource boards :  Ireland, Dublin, Antrim & Cork (and stickies at the top of other county sub-forums)    
My Surname Interests

Offline aghadowey

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 51,235
    • View Profile
Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 09 February 12 08:55 GMT (UK) »
It's likely that the family didn't stay in Ireland. The 1861 census lists a Michel Wildermouth (born c1835) in Devonshire. The LDS database also lists a James Wildermuth in New York who could be this same family.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline fred21

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 09 February 12 09:15 GMT (UK) »
Yes the children seemed to have left Ireland at some stage and settled in England.

John born 1826 went to Devon and then New Zealand
Michael born 1834 also went to Devon and like John was a member of the Irish Royal Constabulary
Daniel died in Lancashire in 1877 leaving behind a son William and a daughter Louisa.
Rose born 1850 (the youngest) is showing as living with her widowed mother Mary on 1871 English census.

it looks like nearly all of the children and their mother left Ireland but unknown when.

I am interested in the Irish connection as that is where all the children have stated that they were born though unknown if they were all born in County Tipperaray.

J William seems to have moved around abit as a solider so it is likely that the children were all were in different counties.

Jean Christopher is a mystery who I would love to find out more about.  His wife Anne Keenan is also a mystery has Keenan doesn't seem to be a very popular name in Ireland.  How a French man ended up in Ireland is fascinating and something that I would like to know more about.

Kilkenny is the only connection I have but I know that the information on the IGI can be wrong so it is possible there are errors in the information.

John Wildermoth born 1826 was a Roman Catholic so I am assuming that the others were also.

Hope this helps
Wildermoth/Wildermouth (Ireland, England, France); Byrne, Whelan, Keenan (Ireland); Ellis (Cornwall); Bambrough (Durham), Newman (Durham and Norfolk); Watson (Durham); Mattison (Yorkshire); Kirker (New Zealand and Ireland); Pirie (Scotland); Campton (unknown);


Offline aghadowey

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 51,235
    • View Profile
Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 09 February 12 10:08 GMT (UK) »
Jean Christopher is a mystery who I would love to find out more about.  His wife Anne Keenan is also a mystery has Keenan doesn't seem to be a very popular name in Ireland.  How a French man ended up in Ireland is fascinating and something that I would like to know more about.

Keenan actually is an Irish name and isn't that uncommon.

Wildermouth, etc. doesn't sound very French- perhaps the family were Germany or Swiss originally. Another possibility is that the family were originally Huguenot- a French ancestor of mine was in the Royal Guard, went to England and then to U.S. but some of the family settled in Ireland.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline richarde1979

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 931
    • View Profile
Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 09 February 12 19:04 GMT (UK) »
The records of the French military shows a Jean-Henri De Wildermouth, an officer, working his way up through the ranks from a lowly second lieutenant the 1750's all the way up to a Colonel in the 1790's on the outbreak of the revolutionary wars in 1792.

Though he was in the Anjou regiment at the end of his career, he seems to have began his career as an officer in the Royal Suédois Infanterie during the seven years war.

http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Royal_Su%C3%A9dois_Infanterie

This was a French 'foreign' regiment originally formed in 1690 from captured Swedish Merceneries then in Dutch service. All officers had to be Swedish, so this would suggest as an officer Jean-Henri was Swedish born. Certainly Wildermouth/Wildermuth is a Germanic name not French, so that would explain how it came to be linked with France.

I wonder with his strong links to the military and France whether this man might possibly be a relative of your man, perhaps even his father?

Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 931
    • View Profile
Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 09 February 12 19:40 GMT (UK) »
Just to add to the above on the French civil list of Dec 1831-1832 a Marie Jean Wildermouth (nee  von Hügel, 'Baroness') 'widow of a late emigrant colonel' was paid 300 Francs a year, as a pension from the state, so that would appear to be his wife. The Von Hügel's were a distinguished Bavarian family many of whom served as  officers in the Austrian military.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 931
    • View Profile
Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 09 February 12 19:54 GMT (UK) »
http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/Records-held-by-the-SHD.html

It may be worth trying to get hold of the full Army records of Jean-Henri De Wildermouth from the link above as it may note his children etc.

There is a partial reference on google books to Marie Jean being bought up in France by her grandfather Baron Von Hügel, a Brigadier in service to the French, and having married Colonel Wildermouth there in France, whilst he was a Major in the Duc de Sang Sang's Strasbourg Regiment. Since we know she was still there in old age on a pension, France clearly was their home, even if neither her or her husband were originally born there, and presumably where any children to the couple were born and raised, so they still seem fairly good candidates to be parents for your Jean Christopher.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline fred21

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #8 on: Friday 10 February 12 10:19 GMT (UK) »
I am so wrapped with everyone's replies.

Yes Wildermoth/Wildermouth does sound German and we always wondered if there was a connection.  There are several Wildermuth's in Germany and the USA but as far as we know our Wildermoth/Wildermouths never spelt their name this way.

thanks so much for the information of Jean Henri and his wife.  I think there is a strong possibly that these could be Jean Christopher's parents.

The name Jean appears in the family a few times, Jean Henri, Jean Christopher, J. William (first name was we think Jean) and so on.  There is also the strong tradition of military service.  Jean Henri, Jean Christopher, J (Jean) William all did long time service in the army and J. William's son John was a policeman (as was brother) and served in the Crimean War and one of his descendents died at Gallipoli.

There was a family rumour (which we know is never reliable) came from a town called Neufchatel.  There are several towns in France and Switzerland with this name so have know idea which one or if this is true.

It is very exciting to think that there may be a Swedish and Austrian connection.  The family seem to have been well travelled! (i.e. Sweden, Austria, France, Ireland, England, New Zealand)

I always thought we might of have been able to find out more through the wives but have virtually no information of these women either.

Jean Christopher married Anne Keenan
J. (Jean) William married Mary Whelan (have no other information on her)
John Wildermoth married Sarah Byrne (again have no information on her)

All I know is a rough age and that they were all born in Ireland.

I will try to follow up on the military record for Jean Henri and see if there is more information there as this does seem like a strong led.

Looking at the von Hugel connection I see that they were strongly Roman Catholic something that the Wildermoth's were also so again Jean Henri and his wife Marie Von Hugel are looking like good contenders.

There are several Wildermoths in New Zealand so the family has done well here.  There does not look like there are any left in Ireland or England so perhaps this line died out?  (how sad)

Thank you all so far for the information provided - it has given me a few leds to try to follow.  I feel that I will be improving my French! to try and understand more.  Here's hoping I can get Jean Henri's military record (cross fingers!)




Wildermoth/Wildermouth (Ireland, England, France); Byrne, Whelan, Keenan (Ireland); Ellis (Cornwall); Bambrough (Durham), Newman (Durham and Norfolk); Watson (Durham); Mattison (Yorkshire); Kirker (New Zealand and Ireland); Pirie (Scotland); Campton (unknown);