Seamons or Simmons ancestor ?

[tall*enough]

First time posting here, so: Hello all.

   I am hoping that someone with more experience than I have can help see me through a roadblock in my family search.  My gr-gr-grandfather was William Kempster, born in Weedon Bucks in 1824.  William's father Joseph Kempster emigrated to Australia in 1848, taking all of his family except his two oldest sons William and Roger.  According to all available records, William married Susanna Seamons in 1845. They had one son (my great grandfather) and three daughters.  William died at the age of 31 in 1855, and Susanna died at age 44 in 1867.  This left the two youngest daughters homeless. So, in the 1871 census, Martha Kempster and Hannah Kempster, both born in Weedon, are shown to be living with James Simmonds in Aston Abbotts.  The 1851 census says Susanna was born in Aston Abbotts, and some online family trees give her father's name as James.  However, Simmonds (or Simmons as it appears in all other census years) is not Seamons.  The census lists the girls as his nieces, but he was born in 1800, and they were born 1850 and 1854, so I think it more likely his is their grandfather. 
    Now here's the problem: the Seamons family in and around Weedon is well researched and available online, but there is NO Susanna (or Susan) to be found.  I know that the spelling of these similar-sounding names varied over the years.  I traced the family of James Simmons back through the censuses 1871 back to 1841, and I thought I had traced them properly until I looked for their family tree on an...try, and found the right people, children, dates, but they say James died in 1857, and I know he was alive in 1871. 
   Susanna was born too early (1823 ish) to be in the birth index, and by the time of the first 1841 census, she was old enough to be out working, so she's not listed with the family. I found Susanna Simmons aged 20, born in Buckinghamshire, working as a servant in the home of surgeon Horace Middleton in Chesham, Bucks, not that far from home.
   So finally, any suggestions from forum members?  I live in Canada, thanks to another early death two generation later, and the Barnardo Homes program of sending destitute child abroad. 
   Many thanks for considering my problem.

[lizdb]

Hi and welcome to Rootschat.

Not sure if this helps, or confuses the issue further -  you dont mention 1861 (maybe you already have it) but it does pose further questions.

Here is Susanna, widowed as we know, with Hannah :

RG9 868 69 21
Hardwick
Susanna Kempster 36 widow lace maker bn Wingrove
Hannah 6 dtr bn Weedon

Looking for Martha, the only candidate I can find is:

RG9 868 69 22 (very close by!)
Hardwick
Joseph Seamons 56 Farmer of 190 acres
Elizabeth wife
lots of children including
Martha Seamons 11 dtr bn Weedon

And a question - when Susanna Seamons marries Wm Kempster in 1845, who does she name as her father?

[lizdb]

No - that line of thought is going nowhere! 1851 clearly has two different girls - Martha Kempster aged 1 with parents William and Susannah, and MArtha Seamons aged 1 with parents Joseph and ELizabeth.

[tall*enough]

Thank you for your reply:

First; I have not been able to find Martha in the 1861 census either.  It's been a while but I think I did look at her Kempster great grandparents William and Elizabeth in Weedon, but she wasn't staying with them at the time. 

Susanna Seamons only appears under that name once in all the records I came find: the marriage index.  There is no mention of a Susanna or Susan Seamons anywhere else that I can find.  There are several Susanna Simmons's but only 1 from Bucks. or Aston Abbotts.

When my grandfather George Kempster was taken in by Barnardo's Homes in September 1898, they recorded all of his relatives (siblings, aunts,uncles) that his mother Jane could recall.  His father Joseph's three sisters Ellen, Martha and Hannah are mentioned in Barnardo records, and I have been able to trace their families down to the early 20th century quite easily.  It's just Susanna's family that has proved a mystery.  I don't have a marriage certificate to check her father's name.  It is rather expensive, but might be the only option, I suppose.

It's great to share this problem with someone else.  Two (or twenty) heads should prove to be better than one.

[hanes teulu]

"the Seamons family in and around Weedon...... but there is NO susanna (or Susan) to be found"

The Bucks Herald 16 December 1865
Deaths
Seamons - on 12 inst, at Hardwick, Miss Susan Seamons, aged 47 years

FreeBMD has the death of a Susannah How Seamons, Dec 1865, Aylesbury, 3a 315

Also, do you have a reference for the 1851 Census for William and Susannah Kempster? I can only find William Kempster and Ann Seamons Kempster (married 1849).

regards

[tall*enough]

Hi: Here are William, Susanna and family in 1851 Weedon.  Thanks for your interest. 

[VCairns]

I know that this is off the track but did you know that your George Kempster had a brother Frederick John Kempster.  Both were both sent to Canada by the Bernardos in ( you mentioned this in previous comments).

However Frederick was returned to England in 1904 as a result of the deformity to the knee.  A result of Giantism which caused him to grow 7 ft 8 1⁄2 in (2.35m)

There is a great page about Frederick on www.thetallestman.com

The website has a picture of Frederick & George when there were in Bernardo's.

Regards
Vicki

[Andy Miles]

There were 3 Joseph Kempsters all b same area same time - c1787 - and all related in one way or another, with children  incl same names. One of these Josephs married Mary Griffin ........ with children incl at least Mary, Joseph, Jane and - William b 4-6/1825 Haresfoot, Northchurch, Berkhamsted, Herts, d 4-6/1896 Bedford He was a Saddler + Harnessmaker who married Ann Seamons Simmons 10-12/1844 Gt Gaddesden, Herts, with children Elizabeth b4-6/1843 Berkhamsted - d1856 Aston Clinton, Bucks + Thomas b1-3/1852 Aston Clinton, Bucks who d 4-6/1909 Walthamstow, NE London. Ann S S was b 1824/5 Aylesbury, Bucks + d 1-3/1852 or 1-3/1857 Gt Gaddesden or Berkhamsted. William, after a short stay with his son in Taunton, Somerset c1861 married Rebecca Ashley Ellis, 10-12/1869 St Pancras, London. She was b Wootton, Bedford 10-12/1837 + d there 1-3/1888. William d Bedford 4-6/1896. They had dtr Mary Griffin Kempster b 7/1870 Wootton, Bedford who married William R Bateman (b1856) 7-9/1916 Bridlington, Yorks + d there 1-3/1946 (no children). Thomas K married Emma Green (b1-3/1847 or 10-12/1849 Bedford, d 10-12/1912 Walthamstow) 4-6/1876 Bedford. They had children Henrietta Emma b Cheam, Surrey c3/1877, Nelly Selina b Walthamstow 7-9/1879, Harry Thomas b+d 1880 and Sidney John b Walthamstow 8/2/1885 - I have their marriages + (few) descendants.

[jbj63]

Hello

I am researching the Simmons family and came across the 1871 census with James and his two nieces Martha and Hannah too.

There was a suggestion that they may have been his granddaughters and not his nieces, but I find this unlikely.  I cannot find any record of James having a daughter called Susan or Susannah.  In fact Susannah appears to be an enigma!  Other than the 1851 census she seems not to exist.

I am trying to find out who James's parents were.  I found a likely record on the LDS b. 1799 in Aston Abbotts with parents Robert and Mary Simmons, but I can't be sure of that.

I am starting to delve into this a bit more now.  If I find anything or interest, I will post it here.