2 names for father on certificates - help needed

[avm228]

Just as a matter of interest, have you found Alice's parents' marriage (as stated on either certificate)?  I've just spent a fair while on FreeBMD looking for a marriage January 1855-1865 and I can't find anything.  Plenty of Robert Bonds with an Ellen on the same page, but no Ellen Johnson.  Nor are there any marriages at all for John Haywood Bond to anyone, or Ellen Johnson to any Bond in that timescale    Very strange.

I can't fnd a marriage either. I note that she's Ellen (33) in 1871, Elenor (42) in 1881, Ellen (51) in 1891, Lenora (60) in 1901 & possibly (free index) Leonora in 1911, always born Newcastle.

The only match I can find for Robert in 1861 (though his birthplace is given as Boston rather than Fleet) claims already to be married, though his wife is not with him.

[Alexander.]

Alices older sister Minnie was born in Barton,Lincs and I have found a birth record for a Mary Hannah Bond Haywood in 1862 which Im pretty sure is her.

I think it would be very helpful to get "Minnie's" birth certificate that you mention. It would help to know if John Haywood Bond just appears for Alice's birth, or if he was around before that. Also it would be good to confirm whether Ellen was maiden name Johnson.

At the moment I'm thinking that Robert and John Haywood Bond were two different people, but Alice was raised by Robert so put him on her marriage cert. Though there is something strange going on since there seems to be no marriages...

Ellen was from Newcastle you say - might it be worth looking over the border into Scotland for her marriage?

[avm228]

Alices older sister Minnie was born in Barton,Lincs and I have found a birth record for a Mary Hannah Bond Haywood in 1862 which Im pretty sure is her.

From www.familysearch.org:

Baptism, Barton upon Humber, Lincs

24 Nov 1862

Mary H B HAYWOOD

daughter of John Haywood & Ellen

[Headgirl]

Thanks for all the replies,its definately a confusing one isnt it!
I cant find any marriage records for Robert to Ellen either.
Freckneale   - I havent come across this reference before, can you tell me where you found it please so I can investigate further?
It was Ellen that registered the birth and she gives her name as Ellen Bond formerly Johnson. I have struggled to find a birth record for her too but am trying to concentrate on the Robert Bond/John Haywood Bond issue at the minute so wont go off on that tangent 
avm228   I have this record too, thanks.

[Dizzifish]

Hello....

You are right that this is a confusing one,I don't have all your answers only a few things to consider. 

I think that Robert Bond was already married and so he wasn't free to marry Ellen.

There is this marriage.....

Holbeach All Saints - 9th April 1860
ROBERT BOND, father William
& ANNE LETITIA NICHOLS, father Thomas
~ ~ ~

This Robert and Ann are never found together and as I think someone has already mentioned on the 1861 Robert says he is married but not with a wife.

Anne's parents were Thomas Nichols & Letitia Slater, married at Holbeach, 6th April 1830

Baptism at Holbeach - Anna Letitia Nichols - 6th March 1831 - parents Thomas & Letitia Nichols.

Anne's mother Letitia  Nicholls was buried at Holbeach - 2nd April 1842, aged 41yrs
~ ~ ~

Anne is with her widowed father in 1851 in Holbeach
1851 - HO107/Piece/ 2097/Folio489/Page 15

~ ~ ~

A bit of a discrepancy regarding Ann on the 1861, she is with a John Hardy and family and described as aged 28, unmarried and sister in law, also with her is a 5 year old Elizabeth Bond, described as niece.

1861 - RG 9/ Piece 2329/ Folio 56/ Page 10 - Holbeach, Lincolnshire

~ ~ ~

1871 - RG10/Piece 3331/Folio 56/Page 20 - Holbeach, Lincolnshire.
Ann Bond, Head, married, aged 41 - Charwoman, born Holbeach
~ ~ ~

1881 - RG11/ Piece 3356/ Folio 64/ Page 28 - 23, Wellington St, Nottingham
Annie L. Bond , Head, W, aged 49 - General Nurse SMS? - born Holbeach, Lincolnshire.
Elizabeth M. Nicholls, daughter, Un,  aged 25 - Charwoman - born Holbeach
Gertrude A. Nicholls , aged 1yr, granddaughter, born Nottingham.
~ ~ ~

[Headgirl]

I had some of that information but not all so thanks. If Robert was already married and therefore not married to Ellen how would she have listed herself as Ellen Bond formerly Johnson on Alices birth certificate? Im assuming that she must have lied? Was this commonplace?

[Dizzifish]

I have seen on a number of occasions this occurring, I expect the marriages didn't work out and they couldn't afford to divorce so the new relationship behaved as though they were married and they wanted the children to have the fathers name etc.

[Marmalady]

I had some of that information but not all so thanks. If Robert was already married and therefore not married to Ellen how would she have listed herself as Ellen Bond formerly Johnson on Alices birth certificate? Im assuming that she must have lied? Was this commonplace?

Yes it would be fairly common. Living together and pretending to be married was probably a lot more common than we tend to think.

If she came in and said "I am am Mrs Ellen Bond formerly Ellen Johnson, this is my child, father is Robert Bond" then that is what the Registrar would have written down -- she would not have had to provide proof of her name or marriage.
However, if she cam in and said "My name is Ellen Johnson, my child's father is Robert Bond but we arent married" then Roberts name could not be entered on the certificate unless he was also present at the time of registration

[Headgirl]

Im wondering if Alices father was John Haywood but whilst Ellen was still pregnant with her John died and she subsequently met Robert Bond and that is why the name on the birth certificate is John Haywood Bond? I cant find anything so far for a John Haywood in the area to back this theory up though