Author Topic: Mary Jane Revell 188?-1974  (Read 6440 times)

Offline AussieBill

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Mary Jane Revell 188?-1974
« on: Saturday 25 February 12 10:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I am doing some research on behalf of my 92 year old grand mother-in- law. She is interested in finding out details of her mothers family, as she never met any of them and until recently she believed her mothers maiden name was Rands.

Her mother was (as far as we can tell) Mary Jane Revell born in Hull sometime in the 1880s. My grandmother-in-laws birth certificate shows her mothers maiden name as Rands but her older brother (now deceased) shows it as Revell. Looking on the Yorkshire BDM I have found a marrige between Herbert Rands and Mary Jane Revell in Hull in 1905 so I'm assuming that her maiden name is Revell.

Any information on Mary Janes family would be much appreciated. Here is a summary of what we have worked out so far:

1881-1887 born around this time in Hull Yorkshire
1905 Marries Herbert Rands
1916 Living in Wandsworth London with William Benge possibly married
1918 Son Raymond Benge Born
1919 Daughter  born (Grand mother-in-law)
1928 William Benge Dies
1928 Marries Tom Seldon
1928 Living with Seldon in Ottery St. Mary
1931  Tom Seldon Dies
1932 Marries John Trivett
1954 John Trivett Dies
1959 Marries William Deacon
1974 Mary Dies Exeter

Offline eborfamilyhistory

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Re: Mary Jane Revell 188?-1974
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 25 February 12 10:25 GMT (UK) »
The 1891 census has a Revell family in Sculcoates, Hull:

REVELL, Samuel    Head    Married    M    28    1863    Railway Rullyman
   Riston
Yorkshire    
REVELL, Clara    Wife    Married    F    26    1865    
   Hull
Yorkshire   
REVELL, Robert P    Son       M    5    1886    Scholar
   Hull
Yorkshire    
REVELL, Mary J    Daughter       F    3    1888    
   Hull
Yorkshire

They are living at 3, Rowland Terrace, Southcoates, Kingston Upon Hull

Would that be them?

The Rands/Revell marriage certificate would confirm her father's name.

Offline AussieBill

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Re: Mary Jane Revell 188?-1974
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 26 February 12 09:47 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for that information eborfamilyhistory
 it seems there were 2 Mary J Revells born in Hull one in 1884 and one in 1887. The 1884 one was registered in Sutton and it seems her father was Robert Revell and mother Jane Mortimer ( I have found that from various google searches). The other is the one you have provided information for.
I will, as you suggest have to obtain a copy of the marriage certificate to find out which one married Herbert Rands.
Thanks again for your help.

Bill

Offline PaulineJ

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Re: Mary Jane Revell 188?-1974
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 26 February 12 10:00 GMT (UK) »
I think I can see Herbert William Rands in 1911 (free index search).
he doesn't appear to have a wife with him though.

There's also an Elizabeth Begby/Begbie  Rands in there somewhere.
Just struck me as not entirely dissimilar to Benge. Elizabeth Begbie Rands b Apr-May-Jun 1910
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Offline tina morana

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Re: Mary Jane Revell 188?-1974
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 26 February 12 10:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi Bill
Could you give us details of the older brother you mentioned please?
Cheers
Tinam
Cornthwaite, Morana, Pearce, Gaffney, Hazlehurst, Milburn
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Offline AussieBill

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Re: Mary Jane Revell 188?-1974
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 26 February 12 23:27 GMT (UK) »
Hi Tina the elder brother (my wife's great uncle) was Raymond Benge born 1917 or 1918 Wandsworth London. Died 2004. He served in the Royal Navy from the mid 1930s and survived 2 sinkings during the WWII.

Cheers for the information on Herbert Rands Pauline, another forum I have asked on has thrown up the same information following is a direct quote

"Mary Jane Revell was shown in the 1901 England census as the sister of Robert P. Revell. Her birth appears to have been registered in1887 (GRO Births Jul-Aug-Sep 1887 Sculcoates vol 9d page 179). There was also a birth of a Mary Jane Revell in 1884. A Mary J Revell married a Herbert William Rands at Sculcoates in 1905 (GRO Marriages Q4 1905 Sculcoates vol 9d page 459).
Then she vanishes from the records.
A Herbert William Rands was recorded in the 1911 census as a 25 year old joiner who had been married five years and had three children of which one had died and two were living. He was residing with his widowed mother Louisa Catherine Rands. Also at the house was a grand-child Elizabeth Begby Rands aged 1.
The birth of Elizabeth Begbie Rands was registered at Sculcoates in Q2 1910. Missing from the census was Mary Jane Rands and another living child.
There was a Mary Jane Rands, aged 26 (1885) who was shown in the 1911 census as a single servant, born Hull, in the household of William Jansen (Jansfen?) a music professor living at Ferriby. She could not be found under that name in any earlier census.
If Mary Jane were the widow of Herbert Rands she may have re-married"

We have  a fair bit of information regarding the Benge family and until 1910 William Benge was still living in Sussex with his first wife and their children so it is unlikely Elizabeth Begbie Rands has anything to do with the Benges. Thanks again for the information however.

Bill

Offline tina morana

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Re: Mary Jane Revell 188?-1974
« Reply #6 on: Monday 05 March 12 09:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi Bill
Quick reply, Raymond R. O. Benge sep qtr 1918 Wandsworth.

Tinam

Added: Raymond Robert O Benge born 29th May 1918, as you said died 2004 Exeter.
Cornthwaite, Morana, Pearce, Gaffney, Hazlehurst, Milburn
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Offline EdwardR

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Re: Mary Jane Revell 188?-1974
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 07 February 16 17:05 GMT (UK) »
Bill

Hello, I don't know if you ever got to the bottom of this, and I am afraid I can't shed a great deal of light on it for you, but I am related to some of the people mentioned in your original message.

Herbert William Rands (1885-1938) (known as Bert) was my great-uncle.  He was the brother of my grandfather, Edgar Smith Rands (1897-1986).  Bert's daughter Elizabeth Begbie Rands (1910-2002) (known as Lily) was known to me.  Her married name was Davison and she was (obviously!) a cousin of my father, Trevor Edgar Rands (1933-2014).  I was born in 1968.

Lily never talked to me about her mother but I do recall my grandfather saying that Lily's mother was a Revell and had left Bert when Lily was very small.  Lily had a brother, Samuel Revell Rands (born 1905), and I had noticed the reference on Bert's 1911 census entry that he had had another child who had died.

Bert subsequently moved to London and remarried and died at Homerton Hospital in 1938, aged 53.

By searching on Ancestry I established that on the date of the 1911 census Samuel, aged 5, was a "visitor" at the address of two sisters, Martha Carmichael (age 54) and Alice Carmichael (age 50), at 21 New Bridge Road in Hull.  Samuel's name was wrongly recorded on the census form as "Samuel Nevill Rans" but the Ancestry search engine is clearly intelligent enough to have located it!

My great-grandmother, Louisa Catherine Rands (1860-1943), with whom Bert and Lily were living in 1911, decided in the 1920s that Lily was going off the rails and sent her to London where she spent several years in service, before returning to Hull in the 1930s to get married.

Samuel Revell Rands is also interesting because Lily and my grandparents all said that he had disappeared at some point in the 1930s and they never saw him again.  From my research on Ancestry I have established that he got married in Kent in 1939 to someone who died as recently as 2005 and they had two children who went on to have children of their own.  I have not yet however managed to establish when Samuel lived until or what happened to him.

Anyhow, that is more than enough rambling and I hope you managed to solve your mystery.  I would be interested to know if you did manage to find out more, and would be similarly happy to share any useful information I have with you although, as I said above, I am not sure that I can be a huge amount of help!

Kind regards

Edward Rands


Offline AussieBill

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Re: Mary Jane Revell 188?-1974
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 10 February 16 23:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi Edward,

thanks for taking the time and effort to add some information. I wasn't certain that Mary Jane Rands had children from her first marriage but this would seem to confirm it. As I mentioned my wifes grandmother (who is still alive, aged 96) never met any of her mothers family and it would seem she had an elder sister and half brother that she was not aware of. Interestingly her middle name is Lillian and her mother called her Lil or Lily both of which she disliked.

The breakdown of the marriage between Herbert Rands and Mary Jane evidently caused some deep rifts. The post for Robert Percy Revell on this site
http://www.circlecity.co.uk/wartime/board/index.php?page=239
(note page numbers change with updates but the one of interest is Robert Revell started by Becca 28th of Sept 2010) suggests that within the Revell family the story was passed on that Herbert Rands died in 1916 and  that Mary Jane enlisted as a nurse and was killed in WWI. I have tried to contact Helga from that site but have not had any luck.

Once again thank you for your information, I will send a PM to you soon.

Kind Regards

Bill