BARR Hedwig Caroline South Australia

[deeiluka]

Here's the George Friedrich BAHR entry in BISA....and it could well be that there were births that were not registered in those early days.

BAHR Geo Fried
Born 1805 Janny nearr Grunberg, Silesia, Prussia
Died 19th Jan1863
Buried Eden Valley SA
Arrived 1841
Resided Flaxman Valley
Married unknown
Children =
Ernestine Pauline BARTHOLOMAEUS (1840-1913)

He certainly had more than one child.

I've found marriages of the following...
Johann Christian c1840
Johann Heinrich Gottlieb c1842
Carl August c1848

The only birth that is registered that I can see is the following.....
Johann Gottfried BAHR born 16th Sept 1857 at Flaxmans Valley to George Friederich BAHR & Anna Elisabeth MARSCH
Ref = Ang 13/181


There may well have been others filling in the gaps, and they certainly followed the German naming pattern to a certain extent, so quite possibly George was also baptised Johann George Friedrich.

I'd definitelly be following up on Cando's suggestion and contacting the Lutheran Archives in South Australia.


Dee  

Added: Ronda, an alternative is that siblings of George came too. My Appelkamps were three siblings. Cornelia was married and came with her husband and two children, along with her unmarried sister and brother.

[barbatalice]

Thankyou so much everyone

I agree about the problem with german names - everyone seems to have so many "first names" and seems to use them randomly.

I have been struggling with the various bits of information trying to find a clue about Caroline
I am now working on the assumption that the surname is either BAHR which would sound the same as the english BAR,  or BÄR which would sound different but be spelt the same. 

From what everyone has said there seem to be two possible George Frederick BAHRs
1. Arrival  Skiold 1841 - no passenger list
2. Arrival Wilhelmine 1855 - wife Anna - 7 children on board - two youngest not named & no ages given

I am trying to sort out what death info goes with which George.
Dee writes that in  BISA the George who arrived in 1841 died in Flaxman in 1863, but the obit for Anna, the wife of the  George who arrived in 1855 has that George also dying about 1863
Any suggestions about this?

And can someone please tell me how to contact the Lutheran Archives in SA.

I was also thinking of trying to look at the german language newspapers in SA at the time.  Has anyone accessed them?   

Barb

[rosball]

I found this website for Lutheran Church Archives with contact details
http://www.lca.org.au/archives.html

cheers,
  Ros

[Rhonda May]

There are some contradictory emigration records.  BISA info has used similar records to this.

http://archivaria.com/EmigList/index.html
[Webpage 4]
II. Emigrating from the province of Silesia in 1841 and going to Australia from Grünberg district in or near

Januy: shoemaker and laborer Georg Friedrich Nitschke (37) with wife Anna Elisabeth, neé Fellenberg (33) and six children: Gottlieb (9), Johanna Rosina (, Anna Rosina (7), Joh. Helene (5), Joh. Ernestine and Joh. Luise, twins (1 ½), plus sister Helene Nitschke (22);

coachman Georg Friedrich Bär with wife Anna Elis., neé Mersch and four children: Christian, Heinrich, Ernestine, Pauline.

Another resource I have states this family APPLIED for emigration in 1840. It may be circumstances prevented them from leaving in 1841.


I am trying to sort out what death info goes with which George.
Dee writes that in  BISA the George who arrived in 1841 died in Flaxman in 1863, but the obit for Anna, the wife of the  George who arrived in 1855 has that George also dying about 1863
Any suggestions about this?
Definitely the same man.


Rhonda

[Rhonda May]

These are the BÄR/BAER/ BAEHR/BAHR children that I have positively identified.

Johann Christian BAHR  c1836 
d. 13 Dec 1906 aged 70y

John Henry [Johann Heinrich] BAHR  c1838 
d. 16 Nov 1917 aged 79y

Ernstine Pauline BARTHOLOMAEUS  c1841 
d. 22 May 1913 aged 72y

Carl August BAHR  c1847 
d. 7 Apr 1937 aged 90y

Augusta Christiane MULLNER  c1849 
d. 21 Feb 1886 aged 37y

Friedrich Wilhelm BAHR  b. 5 Jul 1851
died  1932 of Dumbleyung WA

Johann Gottfried BAHR  b. 16 Sep 1857 
d. 20 Sep 1941 aged 84y


Rhonda

[barbatalice]

I LOVE the link - fantastic!
I found the book on google books but could only have access to the preview - a few pages - which stopped just as it was getting interesting. Will trawl through it for other families

For my simple mind - are there two Anna Elizabeth BAER/BAHRs one arriving in 1855 & one arriving in 1841

Need to go to Lutheran Archives
It is impossible to work out which children belong to which set of parents without knowing where each was born

Back to your link

Barb

[Rhonda May]

Hi Barb

I am certain there were not two separate BAHR families at Flaxman Valley/Eden Valley.

Compare these names.
http://users.adam.com.au/jks58/lutheran/g_names3.html
Janny, District of Grünberg, Province of Silesia
1840 applications
Bär, Anna Elisabeth nee Mersch
Bär, Christian
Bär, Ernestine
Bär, Georg Friedrich, coachman
Bär, Heinrich
Bär, Pauline

 
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/wilhelmine1855.htm
This transcription is not accurate in my opinion
Bahr / Baehr Georg Friedrich 51 - 71/1 Silesia, Prussia GMI
  Anna Elisabeth 41         
  Johann Heinrich Gottlieb 19         
  Johann Christian 15       NAA 3178688
  Ernstine Pauline 15         
  Carl August 7         
  Carl Julius n/a  Does not belong in this family - born 1860 and arrived  in SA in 1888.          
  child n/a  [=Augusta Christiane c1849]       
  child n/a   [= Friedrich Wilhelm b. 1851]
EDIT
Still one child unaccounted for since they were said to have arrived with seven children.

The BÄR family who applied for a permit to emigrate in 1841 obviously did not leave due to some unforseen circumstance.

Rhonda

[SASHAR]

I have the book "Because of their Beliefs" Emigration from Prussia to Australia.
It backs up Rhonda May's posting and states:-
In 1841 a particularly large number emigrated to Australia; through a teacher Kathner from Schloin, they had already joined up with Fritzche in Hamburg in 1840.  From Janny they were:-
Bar, Georg Friedrich, coachman; wife Anna Elis, nee Mersch; children Christian, Heinrich, Ernest, Pauline.

So they must have applied to emigrate in 1840 or before that date, joined the Fritzche group which I presume was Pastor Fritzche, and then migrated in 1841.

The 1841 Skjold passenger list can be found here.   The BAR family can be found as BAUER.
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1841Skiold.htm

Regards,
Sashar

[barbatalice]

Through a glass darkly - so the 1841 Skjold list was a list of those passengers who applied to emigrate  and expected to travel on that ship.  At the last moment the BÄR family did not travel for some reason but remained on the list. Then they actually arrived in 1855 with additional children Augusta & Friedrich, and one daughter Ernestine Pauline not two named Ernestine & Pauline as in the 1840-41 application/passenger list.

Very impressive sleuthing Rhonda to identify the unnamed children and the "ring in" Carl Julius

If they did arrive in 1855, then my Hedwig Caroline born c 1855 could be one of their children, born SA shortly after arrival or perhaps she is the 7th child who does not appear on the passenger list.
It is quite likely that her surname was BÄR and the transcriber of her marriage details simply typed BAR without the umlaut. 

Sashar - On your point about being with the Fritzche group. The BAR family lived in Flaxman - is that where the Fritzche group settled?

Thanks Rhonda and Sahsar. 

Barb