Author Topic: Isaac Moses, b. 1738, of Fenton, Cumberland  (Read 12826 times)

Offline tomk92

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Isaac Moses, b. 1738, of Fenton, Cumberland
« Reply #18 on: Monday 23 April 12 22:17 BST (UK) »
Update as promised

I received the death certificate of "young" John Moses today.

The registrations on the certificate:

When: Twentyninth January 1849
Where: Looks like "93 Fore Street Limehouse"
Name: John Moses, Male
Occupation: Ship Chandler
Cause of death: Morbus Cordis Certified (general heart disease?)
Present at death: Ann Read, 10 Ropemakers fields, Limehouse
Registrar:Adolphus Barnett

His address in the 1841 Census and in the will was 3 Fore Street, Limehouse. Could 93 Fore Street has been som kind of infirmary?

I found Ann Read in the 1851 Census. She is head and "in receipt of parish relief" and she still lives in 10 Ropemaker Street, Limehouse.


Tom Kaasen

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Geoff-E

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,170
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Isaac Moses, b. 1738, of Fenton, Cumberland
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 24 April 12 08:20 BST (UK) »
Could 93 Fore Street has been som kind of infirmary?

It appears to have been an ordinary house (3 occupants) in 1861. :)
Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days alive.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline tomk92

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Isaac Moses, b. 1738, of Fenton, Cumberland
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 24 April 12 08:28 BST (UK) »
Thank you

So much for that theory....

Do you know the mid-nineteenth century Limehouse?

Tom Kaasen

Offline Sandymc47

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,864
  • Fowlers of Yorkshire since 1685
    • View Profile
Re: Isaac Moses, b. 1738, of Fenton, Cumberland
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 24 April 12 10:31 BST (UK) »
Hi Tom,

Very interesting story you tell, with lots of information.

I just thought I would answer a few queries you have mentioned.

Limehouse if you do a search for it, is North of the Thames. In
the 1800's it included the Limehouse, the Regent's and ship building docks.
So can see why John moved to this part of London.
I think you would have to surmise most of the things he did in those
days in London as there is not much passing down of verbal history
in England as children were seen and not heard as the saying goes.
There seems to be a good paper trail for your family which as I said
is a good history you have already found.

Fenton is one mile from Hayton where he was christened. It was just a
small hamlet in those days and Hayton was probably a small village.

The Newcastle you ask about looks definitely that it is Newcastle upon Tyne.
Lots of people moved there in the past for the work which surrounded this City
especially from the Northern Counties like Cumberland, etc.

Information for Cumberland now Cumbria archives are held at Carlisle. I am going there
on 21st May so hope to have a look at the records for my family the Routledges.
If you send me a private mail, just let me know what it is you want to know
and it also lets me remember that I am helping someone when I go there.
I try and help quite alot of people and they get lost on here laugh.
I cant promise anything but might as well look for Moses as well.

regards Sandymc

Hope you manage to get all your information you need for 2014

Midgley, Fowler, Chadwick, Kilvington, Routledge, Hewitt, Stevenson, Ward, Waite, Binks , Buck, Pearson, Stanley, Firth,Child, Hobson, Rogers, all Leeds and Yorkshire for centuaries except the Routledges from Wigton, Cumbria and Middlesbrough. Related to McAllisters of Wilsontown

Offline tomk92

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Isaac Moses, b. 1738, of Fenton, Cumberland
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 24 April 12 10:40 BST (UK) »
Nice offer!

I have a little more information on the family-structure in Newcastle. I have to "tidy it" a bit before I pass it on, but I will certainly do that.
I'm also curious about whether there are any Scottish roots, as the Moses' in Kristiansund did lots of business with Scottish merchants in Kristiansund.

Tom Kaasen

Offline WolfieSmith

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,050
    • View Profile
Re: Isaac Moses, b. 1738, of Fenton, Cumberland
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 29 April 12 11:00 BST (UK) »
From a document here, it looks like Fenton Farm was still owned by the Moses Family up until 1881.

http://www.chapelbooks.co.uk/cumberland.htm

"[Hayton document]  Sale Particulars of Property at Fenton
Printed particulars for the 1881 sale of 'about 72 acres of arable, meadow and pasture land with a farmhouse & outbuildings'. .... showing a very fragmented estate (tenanted by Joseph Atkinson) with fields scattered between Corry House to the West and Fenton Lane Head to the East.  In the small print are mentioned several members of the Moses family from which it can be inferred that the sale of the property arose from the death of Frances, widow of John Moses."

From the National Probate Register : "30 May 1878. Under 4,000. The will of Frances Moses, formerly of Fenton in the Parish of Hayton ......, Spinster, who died 11 May 1878, was proved at Carlise by .... and John Moses, of Newcastle on Tyne, Draper, the Nephew".

Unmarried Frances Moses is a Farmer at Fenton in 1851 - 1871 census. In 1841 census she is aged 35, living at Fenton with William Moses, 70, presumably her father.

Alan.
Northumberland - Smith, Willis,
Durham - Rogerson, Child
Cumberland - Irving, Hill
Yorkshire - Layfield,
Ireland - Collins

Offline Geordie Mag

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Isaac Moses, b. 1738, of Fenton, Cumberland
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 29 April 12 18:08 BST (UK) »
The last reply - about John Moses, the draper - reminded me of Moses' shop in Newcastle. This was a  very successful draper's shop in Grainger Street, a prime shopping area. It survived until 1960. Tyneside Archives says that the Moses family came from Cumberland.

There is also a very expensive house in Gosforth, now a suburb of Newcastle , up for sale and described as "built by John Moses".
Northumberland: Little, Hogg, Tyers, Reid
Durham: Todd, Lee,
Cumbria: Ross, Ivison, Tyers
Yorkshire North Riding: Pybus, Alderson, Rutherford, Mudd, Wilson
Sussex: Selmes, Ashdown, Freelove, Mitchell

Offline WolfieSmith

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,050
    • View Profile
Re: Isaac Moses, b. 1738, of Fenton, Cumberland
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 29 April 12 18:53 BST (UK) »
In 1871 census at 30 Cumberland Row, Westgate, Newcastle :

John Moses, Head, Mar, 66, Draper, b. Fenton, Cumberland,
and wife and children.

Looks to be Frances Moses brother. The nephew of Frances, John Moses, Draper of Newcastle may be his son.

This John Moses entry in the National Probate Calendar :

12 Sep 1874, effects under 18,000. The will of John Moses, late of 212 Westgate Rd., Newcastle, Linen and Woolen Draper, who died 24 May 1874 ...

Clearly a successful man.

So, from records on Familysearch, it looks like this John Moses and Frances were both children of William Moses, and Sarah Railton.

John Moses, baptized 30 Sep 1804, Hayton by Brampton.
Frances Moses, baptized 4 Jun 1809, Hayton by Brampton.

William Moses, aged 70 in 1841 census, was baptized 1 Feb 1769, Hayton by Brampton, son of John Moses.

And a John Moses was baptized 12 Oct 1724, Hayton by Brampton, son of Samuel Moses. Maybe the oldest brother of Isaac Moses (b.1738) who therefore got to inherit the farm and pass it on to his oldest son William. Meanwhile the younger sons, as was the way at the time, moved on to make their fortunes elsewhere.

Clearly a very successful family.

Alan.
Northumberland - Smith, Willis,
Durham - Rogerson, Child
Cumberland - Irving, Hill
Yorkshire - Layfield,
Ireland - Collins

Offline tomk92

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Isaac Moses, b. 1738, of Fenton, Cumberland
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 29 April 12 22:37 BST (UK) »
Thank you for "digging" in this matter.

I have received bits of information about the Moses family in Fenton, early 18th century.

As we know of three nephews, of "old" John, named Moses, he must have had at least three brothers.

My informant has noted these 4 brothers:

Samuel Moses, b. appr. 1703
John Moses, b. 1713 ("old" John)
Thomas Moses, b. 1724
Matthew Moses, b. appr. 1694

In Kristiansund it is a "fact" that "old" John Moses was born in Berwick-upon-Tweed and that he lived in Newcastle prior to moving to Kristiansund.

I think it's correct that the brother, who lived in Fenton, was Samuel. He may have been born appr. 1703 and may have died 9th. Oct. 1766.
My informant has noted 4 children to Samuel and wife Mary?(supposed to have been buried 25. March 1781):

Anne Moses, b. 20. May 1723 Hayton by Brampton
John Moses, b. 12. Oct. 1724 Hayton by Brampton
Samuel Moses, b. 1. May 1732, Hayton by Brampton
Isaac Moses, b. 29. June 1738, Hayton by Brampton (the one going to Kristiansund.

Isaac Moses names one of his sons Samuel in Norway.

When "old" John returns to England, appr. 1764, he marries Margareth Etherington and settles in Kingston-upon-Hull. They have one daughter born to them; Mary Jane Moses, b. appr.1766. Mary Jane Moses marries Aubrey Beauclerck, 6th Duke of Albans, 1788. The couple has one daughter born to them; Mary Beauclerck, b. 1791. Mary Jane dies 1800. Lady Mary Beauclerck married George Coventry, 8th Earl of Coventry. She died 1845 in Italy.

Tom Kaasen