Author Topic: Walter Robert Leigh or Packman - Brecon  (Read 15931 times)

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Walter Robert Leigh or Packman - Brecon
« Reply #9 on: Monday 16 April 12 23:00 BST (UK) »
Thanks; it does appear to fit quite well. Would all deaths be registered and therefore it has to be the one we want?

I think we were concerned that we were jumping to wrong conclusions. And that we might have had the wrong Walter Robert Leigh after all, as without any evidence that he was in the army we couldn’t connect the Walter born in Southwark, who spent his childhood in Kent with the Walter, father of Thomas Henry Leigh, born in Brecon, that we know to be my husband’s great grandfather.

However, Walter’s birth certificate arrived today and it probably confirms that they are one and the same person, even though parts of the puzzle don’t fit…

The ‘young’ Walter was born to Richard, engineer, and Sarah Leigh in St George’s Southwark in Jan 1845. His parents had both died by the time Walter was six and he was brought up in North Cray and Footscray in Kent. His older sister Elizabeth married Henry Packman, her father listed as Richard, wheelwright, deceased.

The ‘old’ Walter’s wedding certificate lists his father as Richard Leigh, deceased, engine fitter. In 1881 and 1891 Walter appears to be living as Walter Packman, born in Kent (’81) and Footscray (’91). 

Surely it’s too much of a coincidence for Richard / engineer/ Packman / Footscray to appear in both the ‘young’ and ‘old’ Walter for them not to be the same person?

This will presumably be as far back as we can get from home and the internet so will probably leave Walter and co for now and move on to explore another branch of our tree(s).
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

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Offline osprey

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Re: Walter Robert Leigh or Packman - Brecon
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 17 April 12 10:52 BST (UK) »
Yes, it does look to be too much of a coincidence. In theory, all deaths are registered, but there's a lot recorded as 'Unknown'.

Do you have the birth cert for John as he is the only one born out of area to see if they are any clues to the name change?
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

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Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Walter Robert Leigh or Packman - Brecon
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 17 April 12 21:00 BST (UK) »
Do you have the birth cert for John as he is the only one born out of area to see if they are any clues to the name change?

No, only bought a handful so far, those we needed to extend the direct branches. Sounds a good idea though, though I have a feeling it will only add to the mystery... 

Thanks for interest, Deirdre
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline garfydd

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Re: Walter Robert Leigh or Packman - Brecon
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 18 April 12 15:13 BST (UK) »
Leigh/Packman,
Could be gypsies, very unlikely, it fits the mould. Will check my Brecon records.
Garfydd

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Walter Robert Leigh or Packman - Brecon
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 18 April 12 16:56 BST (UK) »
Hadn't thought of that, but thanks.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline garfydd

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Re: Walter Robert Leigh or Packman - Brecon
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 19 April 12 10:03 BST (UK) »
I have slept on it. Lee(Leigh) is,sometimes, a gypsy name. Checked the Brecon gipsy families-Rockhorn,Lee,Warner,Price. None of yours. His military record does not sound like traveller. Could he have changed his name-Leigh to Parkman or vica versa. Census error, see Richard Lawton,"The Census & Social Structure",Cass.1948.
Garfydd

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Walter Robert Leigh or Packman - Brecon
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 19 April 12 22:08 BST (UK) »
OK thanks for checking.

Trouble is, we can't find any confirmation of military career, other than occupation listed on wedding certificate. And he's only Packman on 1881 and 1891 census, Leigh everywhere else, same for wife and kids, other than the one born in Cardigan ??? 
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Walter Robert Leigh or Packman - Brecon
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 27 June 13 19:26 BST (UK) »
Do you have the birth cert for John as he is the only one born out of area to see if they are any clues to the name change?

We've decided to return to the Leigh / Packman saga and have bought Walter junior and John's birth certificates to try and trace their movements (already had Thomas') ..

~ 22 Mar 1877: Walter Robert Leigh born at Mount Street, Brecknock to Walter Robert Leigh, private 24th foot, and Mary Ann Leigh, formerly Thomas. Informant: W R Leigh, father, Barracks, Brecknock;
~ 28 Dec 1878: John Richard Packman born at Rhosfach, Blaenporth, Llandygwydd to Walter Robert Packman, coachman, and Mary Ann Packman, formerly Thomas. Informant Mary Ann Packman, mother;
~ 31 Dec 1880: Thomas Henry Leigh born at Mount Street, Brecknock to Walter Robert Leigh, groom (domestic) and Mary Ann Leigh, formerly Thomas. Informant: Mary Ann Leigh, mother, Mount Street.

So another twist of sorts in that Walter (child 1) and Thomas (child 3) were both born in Mount Street, Brecknock and registered as Leighs, while John (child 2) was born in Llandygwydd and registered as Packman.

Taking some leave in July or August so planning a trip to the library in Brecon or the records office in Llandrindod to see if they have anything to help. Someone looking for Walter Robert about 10 years said they had a photograph of him in army uniform from a newspaper ???  Tried contacting her a while ago but no reply  :(
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline despair

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Re: Walter Robert Leigh or Packman - Brecon
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 27 June 13 22:55 BST (UK) »
There is a baptismal record for John Richard Leigh to Walter Robert(groom)and Mary Ann in Brecon in 1882.recorded as born 1879.
Further,there is a Brecon record for Walter Robert Leigh(snr),baptised 1884,but recorded as born 1845 to Richard(engineer) and Anne.Same address as others 27 Street.

Regards
Roger