which George MOSS

[BartSmith_01]

hello All,

I am the original author of the webpage that Regross references on the first page of this chat.

Rose Moss is my great Grandmother, hence my interest.

I need to clear a few things up in regards to the children of Jane Batwell and George Moss.

I have come to the conclusion that Jane and George had 3 children, 2 girls, 1 boy.  Below are the proofs/findings.
     1:  The death notice in the SMH for Jane only mentions the 3 children, not 4.
     2:  I have never found a birth certificate for Rose.  On her marriage and death cert, she mentions a birth date of 1864.  This seems very close to Rebecca.
     3:  I have the marriages for Annie, Albert and Rose.  No Rebecca
          a:  A Rebecca Moss did marry a Joseph Gardiner, however the parents of Rebecca are lisrted as Mary Kain and Jospeh Moss.  The parents (mother in particular) name are not remotely like "Bridget Batwell (nee Devan)
     4:  I have the deaths for Annie, Albert and Rose, no Rebecca.
     5:  With the above proofs, I have come to the conclusion, that Rebecca is indeed Rose.

Rebecca did not marry Joseph Gardiner.  See point 3a above.  In addition, I have this certificate if anyone wishes it.

I have assumed that despite that a marriage to George Moss being noted on the birth certificates in 1860, that there was no marriage foe whatever reason.

I have seen the newspaper advert ( http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13203176?searchTerm=%22george+moss%22 for George selling up in Sydney in April 1870, and moving to Melbourne.  Unsure of exactly why he went there.
 As to the warrant, it was issued in Victoria, not NSW, thus jane and the kids were still there in 1872, George was back in Sydney.

Jane married James Napthaly in 1874.  Whilst it was after the death of George, it is unsure if the marriage to James was the result of george's death.  What is of interest, is that Janes sister, Ann Batwell, married benjamin Napthaly (brother to James) in 1858, some 16 years before Jane married James.

I have the following certs/transcripts for anyones use: (Batwell/Moss)
Bridget Batwell (nee devan):  Death
Thomas Batwell:  Death
Jane Batwell: Birth, Marriage & Death
Rose Moss:  Wedding & Death
Rebecca Moss:  birth
Annie Leah Moss:  Birth & Marriage
Rebecca Moss:  (not related)  marriage to Joseph Gardiner
Albert Moss:  Birth & Marriage
James Napthali:  Death

Hope this helps,

Bart Smith

[BartSmith_01]

I stumbled across another death notice on Jane Napthali (nee Batwell).  See here: http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/111029478
The Friends of ALBERT MOSS are respectfully invited to attend the funeral of his deceased MotherJane Napthali ; from his residence, 401, Kent-street, at 1:30 p.m. Tomorrow (Sunday), for the necropolis. KINSELA, Undertaker.

So....  Given that Charles Kinsela was the undertaker, has anyone got access to the Kinsela Burial registers that can look up where she might be buried?

Assuming the necropolis was rookwood, I have searched their online database, but no luck.  Hopefully a headstone might shed a bit more light.

Any assistance appreciated.

Bart Smith

[cando]

Regross [Robyn] died last year.  Thank you to Sarah for posting the information on her membership status.

Interred at Necropolis Independent
http://www.rookwoodcemetery.com.au/index.php/search-online
Jane NAPTHALI
MT [Methodist]  Section 01
Row  N/A
Block/Plot N/A
Number  0000127
Grave image - No Image

From my resource

Interred at Independent Methodist Section 1 Row 5 Graves 126 & 127
   
Albert August NAPTHALI
9 Feb 1917 70 years

Jane NAPTHALI
2 Aug 1927  77 years
Wife of above

Emily Mary Elizabeth NAPTHALI
9 Aug 1929
(Ciscie) Wife of H J NAPTHALI

Horace Joseph NAPTHALI
1 Jan 1952
Husband of the above

Cando

[majm]

Thank you Cando and Thank you Sarah

Robyn and I worked on George Moss online and off, and I still have my scribbled working notes tucked away.  I intended getting these out over this coming weekend.  I will make sure I do and will check and re-check to see how I can further  Bart's quest.   

She was a fine researcher.

JM

[rosball]

Obit to the Jane Naptholi who died in 1927, widow of A.A. Naptholi
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article85955129 which gives details of children and grandchildren

regards,
  Ros

and some death notices http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16394169

[BartSmith_01]

Thankyou Cando for the information on the Napthali's, however the Jane Napthali (nee batwell) I am looking for died 11 Aug 1883, and the funeral was held 12 Aug 1883.

The entry you posted was for Jane Napthali (nee lamb) married 1893 to Albert Napthali.

My only hope at this stage is to check Kinsela's records to see where was interred at.


Bart Smith

[majm]

Welcome Bart to RChat

May I ask if you have Jane's dc as it should give denomination for the 1880s burial..  If not please dont order it as I have not yet checked my file.  I am not a rellie just an RChatter with an addiction to : NSW centric family history.

Rookwood has a number of online databases and some were recently amalgamated.  Some are still stand alone.  There are also CDs with Transcriptions of many gravestones.   So may I please ask for a day or so for the regulars here at RChat to refresh our memories so we can help you to take up where Robyn had got to...

Again Welcome

JM

[BartSmith_01]

Thanks for the welcome JM.

I have been unable to find a death certificate for Jane, as I have tried every derivation of the surnames Napthali, Moss and Batwell.  Given that she died in Aug 1883, I have even searched for every person named Jane who died in 1883 in NSW... No names stick out there....

What I do know about Jane:
B: 03 Apr 1841 (have BC)
had 3 children to a George Moss
  1: Albert (b 1862, have BC) mother living at Hill St.  Mother listed as "Jane Batwell", and birth registered as a surname of Morris.  Father "George Morris", born London, age 39, occupation, storeman.  The age given is 9 years younger that what George really is.
  2: Rebecca "Rose" (b 1863, have BC) Mother Jane Batwell, living at Liverpool St.  Father, George Moss, 41 years, storeman. 1 boy living from marriage, marriage in 1861 (no marriage cert ever found)
  3: Annie Leah (b 1866, have BC) Mother Jane Batwell, living South Head Rd, birth at harris St Pyrmont. father is George Moss, storekeeper, 40 yr old, born London.  3f, 6 m living from 1st wife, 2f, 1 m living by previous wife.

Married Albert Napthali 10 Oct 1874.

On Jane's death it was reported in the SMH by her son, Albert (11 Aug 1883)
NAPTHLIA.-August 11, at the residence of her son, Albert Moss,
Kent-street, Jane Napthlia, in the 42nd year of her age, leaving a son and two daughters to mourn their loss. Beloved by all who knew her. 

Albert also listed details about the funeral in the SMH:
THE Friends of ALBERT MOSS are respectfully invited to attend the funeral of his deceased mother, Jane Napthali ; from his residence, 401, Kent-street, at 1:30 p.m. tomorrow(Sunday), for the necropolis. KINSELA, Undertaker.

The mystery still remains as to which George Moss was the father of her children, however Annie's birth certificate gives the strongest clue regarding the children prom previous marriages.

Hope this helps,
Bart

[majm]

 

Hi Bart,

Re Jane

  Do we know what information is on James NAPTHALI's dc/headstone?  particularly what the informant gave as to any children from his marriage with Jane. 

This morning I have re-worded and condensed some notes re Jane.  I apologise if these are somewhat confronting as I am basically wondering IF the registration was finalised.    I have not yet found whether I had searched the Rookwood cemetery records for Jane.  I will get on with that task shortly.   

The notes will likely take up a full 5000 character post restriction.  So please see my next post.

Cheers,  JM