Author Topic: Birth Date of *** COMPLETED*** Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria  (Read 12383 times)

Offline sydney researcher

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Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 09 May 12 03:38 BST (UK) »
Oakleigh Leader, 1897
Winkelmann 1879- 1936 (Victoria & Melbourne, Aust))
Thomas 1870-   (Aberdovey, Wales & Blackstone Qld)
Clark  1853 + Fulstow, Lincolnshire (1770+) & Toowoomba, Qld (1853+)
Bernhard Wendlandt (1861-1929) Merlbourne, and Berlin, and any descendents

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Offline cando

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Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 09 May 12 08:47 BST (UK) »
I suggest you read replies#6 and 7 including the links.

You have missed quite a lot information.

Lots of snippets on TROVE.

Cheers
Cando
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Offline regross

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Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 09 May 12 09:15 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I have been re-reading this thread.
some ideas

I feel we have two people
1) Helen Wendlandt nee Doswell
2) Nella Vincent nee Wendlandt

Supposing that Nella could the adopted daughter of Helen and Bernard? Given that she gives her mothers maiden name as Gill on the marriage certificate  has anyone looked for a birth of a Nella/ Helen/Helena/Ellen GILL?

regards

Robyn

The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany

Offline GeorgeRP

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Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 09 May 12 11:41 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone,

In answer to regross. There is a Nella Gill born 1921, in Tasmania.  Twenty years out I'm afraid, as my  Nella was born in 1902.

Regards

George
Vincent - Tasmania - Victoria - Australia
Polson - Tasmania - Australia
Broad - Tasmania - Australia

Offline cando

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Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
« Reply #31 on: Saturday 12 May 12 06:49 BST (UK) »
Hi Sydney Researcher

Hopefully this will help you  :)

Bernard attended St Peter's College Adelaide. 
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0m8w/
Prize for German writing 1876
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0m8j/

As Sue as mentioned
Quote
Cannot explain the discrepancy between the registered given name of the groom and the name of the groom given in the newspaper.

I wonder if he had a third or even a fourth given name which wouldn’t be shown on the index

WENDLANDT—DOSWELL.—On the 22nd ult., at the German Church, Fitzroy, Helen, daughter of the late James Doswell, Esq., London, to Bernhard Wedlandt, of Adelaide.

Marriage
WENDLANDT August Heinrich born South Africa
DOSWELL Helen Janet  Born Sussex
1886  Reg#6920

This certificate would confirm it was Bernard as his parents names are mentioned in this newspaper item published in 1927
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0m8g/

Images of certs can be purchased online and immediately downloaded
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

Information on all certs in Victoria
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html

Quote
arrived Melbourne June 1886 age 30, per Garonne, from London.

Arrived Melbourne on the GARONNE June 1886 but continued to Adelaide  [apologies for the typo with the year]
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0m8h/

Helen also arrived on the GARONNE according to application for naturalization dated 1914…but why would she need to apply for a naturalization, she was born in England in 1861
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=31169&S=1&T=R

DOSWELL H Miss 20 years arrived in May 1886 on the GARONNE Port B Fiche 467 Page 012

Return trip to Melbourne from Adelaide Dec 1886
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0m8u/

Bernard was back in Tasmania in 1927
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0m8t/

Cheers
Cando



 


 
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Offline regross

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Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 12 May 12 10:17 BST (UK) »
looking at the dates again trying to sort it out in my mind:

It is NELLA WENDLANDT whose birth we are trying to establish est at 1902

It seems Nella's birthdate is some 14 years after the marriage of Bernard and Helen in 1886 .

At the date of Nella's birth Helen would have been
36 if aged 20 as the shipping records and naturalisation records suggest
Quote
DOSWELL H Miss 20 years arrived in May 1886 on the GARONNE Port B Fiche 467 Page 012
  this of course may be a mistranscription of 40

Quote
Helen also arrived on the GARONNE according to application for naturalization dated 1914…but why would she need to apply for a naturalization, she was born in England in 1861
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=31169&S=1&T=R

can find no appropriate birth in Sussex in 2 years either side of 1861.

or 57 if the following are correct:

Quote
An ELLEN DOSWELL  birth was registered in Southhampton in 1845 which matches closely with her age in the trove notification

which agrees with her age at death making it highly unlikley that she is Nella's birth mother.

Quote
WENDLANDT Helen Janet
Father Doswell
Mother Unknown  UNKNOWN
Death Place EMERALD
Age 92
Year 1946
Reg Number 20713

I really do think that Nella may be adopted also; in light of the  above and the following:

Quote
When FRANZenlisted for ww1 he was 19 years old (DOB 9/4/1896)
He described HELEN as his "adoptive mother " and Next of Kin.

finding an illegitimate birth 1901-1903 which could be in any state of Australia will be time consuming but Tasmania, Victoria and Qld may be the best choices with Gill or variations  or MacIntyre (Franz'z birth name) of the name a good starting point.



Robyn
The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany

Offline cando

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Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
« Reply #33 on: Sunday 13 May 12 08:40 BST (UK) »
Helen Janet WENDLANDT stated in 1914 she had no children however we know she adopted one, her son Franz.  I suggest she also adopted Nella born c1900. I think there would have been birth notices in the Argus if Helen and Bernard had children.  Bernard featured regularly and Helen is also mentioned at functions...including a description of her clothes, which was the norm for that era.   There so few WENDLANDT’s in Aus in this period and only one Bernard/t.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0mdn/
WENDLANDT-DOSWELL.-[Silver Wedding.]-On  the 22nd December, 1886 by Pastor Herlitz. German church, Eastern Hill, Bernard Wendlandt, musician, to Helen, daughter of the late James Doswell, London. Present address-Kooree, Paradise Valley

The following is speculative research based on the father’s name in the above notice.

The 1886 marriage certificate would be useful but the index states she was born Sussex and there aren’t many DOSWELL’s in Sussex. 

1861 Census RG9/587/11/26
Living at Priory Street, Lewes, Sussex
DOSWELL James Head Married 37 years  Engineer in steam packet  Born Romsey, Hampshire
DOSWELL Jane  Wife  Married  26 years  Born Dublin, Ireland
DOSWELL Maria  Dau  6 years  Scholar  Born St Helier, Jersey
DOSWELL Ellen Dau  4 years   Born Newhaven, Sussex
DOSWELL James Son  1 year  Born Southwick, Sussex

I cannot find Ellen on the 1871 but note there was a death of a Jane Maria DOSWELL  at Lewes in 1863. ?death of her mother and bearing in mind the 2/3 year gap from the birth of son James, possibly in childbirth. 

Deaths Sep  1863
DOSWELL Jane Maria   Lewes 2b93

Fortunately not many DOSWELLS in England…this could be her father
Deaths June 1876
DOSWELL James  50 years St. Olave 1d152

1881 Census  RG11/445/93/20
Living at The London Hospital,
37 & 38 Alie Street, Whitechapel
DOSWELL Ellen  21 years  Hospital Nurse  Born Newhaven, Sussex

On the 1881 census her elder sister Maria 26 years born St Helier, Jersey Islands is a domestic servant living at  Fenwich Road  Camberwell – so that places her along with her father in London [1911 anniversay notice]

I would suggest this is Maria’s marriage however she is now a tad younger than she should be….

At the Parish Church of St Martin, Kentish Town, Camden
Jun 19 1906 
Henry EDWARDS 44 years Bachelor, Decorator of 1 Vicars Road Father Henry Foale EDWARDS decd, gentleman
Maria DOSWELL 46 years, Spinster  of 1 Vicars Road  Father James Edward DOSWELL, Engineer

Ellen/Helen's age is not constant but her place of birth [Newhaven, Sussex] is and the occupation hospital nurse would tie in with her owning a convalescant home in Vic.
1861 born c1857
1881 born c1860
1886 born c1866
1886 Marriage cert....this would be useful.
1914 born c1861
1946 born c1854

Quote
An ELLEN DOSWELL  birth was registered in Southhampton in 1845 which matches closely with her age in the trove notification which agrees with her age at death making it highly unlikley that she is Nella's birth mother.
Robyn

I can't find the trove notification that indicates a birth c1845.  She died in 1946 aged 92 years which indicates a birth c1854.  I cannot find a birth registration for Ellen on freebdm and the only registration c1857 in Lewes, Sussex is for an Elizabeth Emily.  Unfortunately people do change their given names ;)

This appears to be the baptism for the Ellen born 1845 Southampton.

DOSWELL Ellen
Born 1845
Baptised 8 Oct 1845 at Southampton, Hampshire England
Father Richard Doswell  Mother Sarah Sophia

George this will really interest you  ;D

Mercury Hobart Saturday 22 June 1901
Departures
Warrimoo, s.a., 3,326 tons, H. J. Richardson, for Melbourne.
Passengers Saloon: Madame Wendlandt; Misses Turnbull, Gill; Mrs. Back; Masters Jamieson, Franz.

Perhaps there were two adopted/fostered daughters. 

For completion on Helen's life.

From arrival in May 1886 - 1914
Lived in
South Yarra 7 months
Moonee Ponds 18 months
Various addresses in City of Melbourne 6/7 years
Brighton 7 years
Paradise Valley 18 years - this would be Menzies Creek

Australian Electoral Roll
1909 already posted
1914
WENDLANDT Helen Janet Menzies Creek  HD

1919, 1924, 1931, 1936, 1937, 1942
WENDLANDT Franz  Clematis   Orchardist
WENDLANDT Helen Janet  Menzies Creek  HD

Helen is buried at
Emerald Cemetery
WENDLANDT Helen Janet  92 years
Location   H 305  Area   [EM]H-H

I think she was born 1857 and the age on the shipping record should be 30 not 20. The 1861 census is probably the closest to her true age. 

Cheers
Cando

 









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Offline GeorgeRP

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Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
« Reply #34 on: Sunday 13 May 12 09:49 BST (UK) »
Hi Cando, & all other researchers,

Thankyou for all the time and effort, [probably hours in total], helping me with a very difficult search.

Obviously plenty of information on Bernard & Helen, and I would agree that Nellie was adopted.

Along with my twin brother, having been privately adopted at birth,  I've learnt  if you don't want to be found, it's not very hard to hide your tracks.
[You only have to change your name a couple of times].

Thank-you all once again, I can probably, now lay this post to rest

George
Vincent - Tasmania - Victoria - Australia
Polson - Tasmania - Australia
Broad - Tasmania - Australia

Offline cando

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Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
« Reply #35 on: Sunday 13 May 12 11:08 BST (UK) »
George I think this search has been one of the easy ones....the shipping passenger list suggests that Helen travelled with a Miss GILL in 1901 and surely this was 'Nella'.

Thankfully the adoption process was more 'open' from the mid 1970's in Victoria.

Cheers and good luck
Cando

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk