My Gower ancestors of Penboyr.

[Brian from Bont]

My great great grandparents John (1801 to 1844) and Margaret Davies(1804 to 1869) Gower lived at Cilgraig, (site is still there) Cwmpenygraig in the parish of Penboyr. Apparently both were born in the parish and were married there 6 November 1827 (information obtained from Carmarthen FHS list of Carmarthenshire marriages). I've recently subscribed again to Findmypast.co especially to access and upload their Welsh parish records; however there is no record for my ancestors birth nor marriage there nor in nearby places such as Llangeler, although I do have their burial records. I understand that the main church St Llawddog was refurbished early 19c which could account for the gaps. Is anyone familiar with other churches in Penboyr where baptism, marriage and burial could have taken place? 

[osprey]

Welcome to Rootschat!

The records available on FindMyPast are transcripts from the Welsh Archive Services. They do not include all parish records available. Do you have a copy of the parish entry for the 1827 marriage? If the couple are shown as 'of this parish' in 1827, it doesn't mean they were born there, although I can see Margaret gives Penboyr as her place of birth on the 1851 census.

The parish page on Genuki doesn't mention gaps in the parish records, only in the BTs and that's par for the course.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Pen-Boyr/index.html

It could be that your family was non-conformist and so there are no parish baptisms to be found. At the time, marriages had to be in a parish church to be legal, the only exceptions being for Quakers & Jews. So, a marriage in a parish church is no guide to which denomination the family worshipped in.

There are some transcribed records on FreeReg

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

[marcie dean]

try titsling ithink in surrey. the goer family have a big house there and a church.
my gower family were originally from corstophine nr.edinburgh and i believe the house was sold abt 1963 an the family moved back down south. it is a place i intend to visit at some point.he became the duke of sutherland.
marcie dean

[osprey]

think that might be a different Gower family. The name occurs in South Wales, probably related to the part of Glamorgan called Gower

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gower_Peninsula

[Brian from Bont]

Welcome to Rootschat!

The records available on FindMyPast are transcripts from the Welsh Archive Services. They do not include all parish records available. Do you have a copy of the parish entry for the 1827 marriage? If the couple are shown as 'of this parish' in 1827, it doesn't mean they were born there, although I can see Margaret gives Penboyr as her place of birth on the 1851 census.

The parish page on Genuki doesn't mention gaps in the parish records, only in the BTs and that's par for the course.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Pen-Boyr/index.html

It could be that your family was non-conformist and so there are no parish baptisms to be found. At the time, marriages had to be in a parish church to be legal, the only exceptions being for Quakers & Jews. So, a marriage in a parish church is no guide to which denomination the family worshipped in.

There are some transcribed records on FreeReg

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

Thank you for your response. I am aware that permission was not given by all parishes for FindMyPast but Penboyr was included so it's hard to understand why, at least, the marriage is not recorded there in 1827. Besides I've discovered FindMyPast gaps, compared to known parish records such as Pembrey, elsewhere and put the discrepancy to FindMyPast on their Facebook but they've failed to respond satisfactorily. My Gower ancestors weren't Quakers (or Jews) as they were married in church as were their children whose marriage and burial records I have. The 1827 marriage entry I obtained from Carmarthnshire Marriages, but I have never seen the actual record. I'll have to go to the National Library of Wales in Aberystwyth or LDS in Newcastle Emlyn for a copy. Of course "of this parish" normally refers to residence and not necessarily baptism.  The search goes on...more footwork, but at least its scenic!

[Brian from Bont]

try titsling ithink in surrey. the goer family have a big house there and a church.
my gower family were originally from corstophine nr.edinburgh and i believe the house was sold abt 1963 an the family moved back down south. it is a place i intend to visit at some point.he became the duke of sutherland.
marcie dean

My Gower ancestors are not those - probably of Norman origin from Kent or Scotland - but are almost certainly originally from Gower in Glamorganshire and where the name is very local including Pembrey, Kidwelly, Llansaint and some in the Carmarthen area (also Penboyr and Llangeler) but few elsewhere in Wales at that time. There are some in Pembrokeshire (David Gower the England cricketer's people) who could still turn out to be my "clan"!

[osprey]

you could get a copy of the parish marriage from the record office in Carmarthen. Don't be put off by the price for research, you have the date & parish for the marriage, so no need to pay for research &the archives should be able to provide a copy.

Your family could have been non-conformist and married & buried in the parish church. Not all places of worship have a burial ground & so there's no choice but to use the parish burial ground. From the start of civil registration, marriages could take place in a place of worship other than a parish church, but a registrar had to be present. This was the case until the 1890s. In rural areas, it may have been easier to marry in the parish church rather than get a registrar to attend.

Be thankful you're not related to that Duke of Sutherland - not a popular man becuase of his involvement in the clearances. His statue still gets vandalised. 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-15924649

[Brian from Bont]

CRO sometimes take a week and charge £10 (on-line GRO is £9.25) and besides a trip to Aberystwyth or Newcastle Emlyn costs nothing (I have a bus pass and am now retired). My Gower family in Penboyr remained CoE (now Church in Wales) right up to the 20th century although my great grandfather Thomas who settled in Pembrey where I grew up like many became non-conformist, although some still wanted to be buried in the ancestral the church. Thanks again.

[Ricardian]

Hello Brian

I have Gowers on both sides of my family. My gt gt Grandmother on my father's side of the family was Ann Gower who, though born in St Ishmaels lived in Pembrey. She married David Eynon. I haven't checked out any marrige certs yet. On my mother's side my gt gt Grandfather was Edward Gower and try as I might I can't get further back than him. It was interesting to hear Osprey mention non conformists which I suppose could apply to my Gower family though I know that his children were christened and married in the Church of England. I have looked at the Parish Records for Llangyfelach where he is supposed to have been born sometime between 1793 and 1796 but the only people named Gower around that time were James and Elizabeth and they didn't have a child named Edward. It has occurred to me that he could have been an orphan and took his name from the area in which he lived. You would think that with a relatively unusual name like Gower, unlike Davies and Jones, which I also have in my family, we wouldn't find it hard to find the records.